I am a newbie to the V10 engine and had a question for this experienced group before I contact a Ford dealer. On the trip back to California from Florida, I noticed a noise from the engine area. Hard to describe since my hearing is not the best but it was a type of rattling noise. It happened frequently when accelerating or going up a grade. Sometimes I would just be going along in cruise control and it would make the noise for a little while, then just stop on it's own. Any ideas what might be the cause?
The engine gurus will likely offer opinions, but my first suggestion would be to check for a loose/worn serpentine belt (and/or timing belt). The belt itself may be glazed, loose, torn, other, and/or the tensioner might need adjustment.
Please post when the problem is accurately diagnosed; thanks.
Hi Greg. I'm sure you checked the oil level, and for anything obviously loose or something banging around, hitting something else. It wouldn't be an exhaust leak or knocking from bad gas? Going uphill would put the engine under more stress, change the driveline angle, and disrupt objects in outside storage compartments. A look at the engine from underneath might cast more light on this noise. There are some heat shields and plastic covers for steering components that can come loose.
Get someone with 'younger ears' to ride with you and see if you can reproduce the symptoms. I remember there being driveshaft issues earlier on. I have a place where I can drive slowly, next to a block wall to reflect sounds, with the window down. This has worked before with wheel cover issues. Do you have after market add-ons like Banks cat back or similar?
How many miles are there on your 'new to you' rig? RonB
A what RPM range do you hear the noise?
Under hard climbs at or near 4000-RPM, our two V10s haved sounded like a rattleing can of marbles. The noise does change pitch after a short time. It is a sound I have never heard in any other engine.
4000-RPM is the range where the engine climbs best, the engine is designed to run safely at high RPMs, one advantage of the overhead cams.
Larry
Ron, no add-ons that I know of. I did do an underneath inspection when I was checking out the rig for purchase but will get under the hood and underneath the rig for a closer inspection now that I'm home. Don't think it was bad gas as it occured throughout my travels. Going to head down to town on Monday to get it smogged and change the oil so will have my better half ride along and listen, and perhaps record the noise with her phone. I will also mention it to the local mechanics. About 35K miles on Bossa Nova.
Larry, I was running in the 2000-2500 RPM range when the noise was occurring. Your can of marbles reference hits the nail on the head.
I don't recall hearing any rattling, pinging, knocking, or other noises that I would classify as "not right" when climbing steep grades or accelerating; granted, my hearing is less acute (for voices) than it was, but I am still tuned into the 17-year-old engine. I don't think I've missed any odd motor sounds, but I will sure listen carefully the next time I haul up a steep grade!
On edit: Definitely have not heard a "can of marbles".
Without hearing what you refer to it's very hard to diagnose. It could be a low octane "ping". You must use at least 87 Octane gasoline. Some places have 85 Octane. Do not ever use it!! If you can't get 87 go to a higher 91.
May not be your problem, but a suggestion. How many miles since your last tune up?
Without hearing what you refer to it's very hard to diagnose. It could be a low octane "ping". You must use at least 87 Octane gasoline. Some places have 85 Octane. Do not ever use it!! If you can't get 87 go to a higher 91.
May not be your problem, but a suggestion. How many miles since your last tune up?
Yes, I always used 87 octane. I have the maintenance records from the previous owner so will check them to see if a tuneup was performed. Thanks!
Just a suggestion, but when you have the oil and filter changed, you might also want to change the fuel filter (and the air filter).
I will spare you the long story of how I resolved a similar noise problem. It sounds like it may be the same problem that I had. When the engine gets hot under load or even stopping to get gas etc. and then the heat buildup in the engine compartment there’s a fan that engages. I ended up replacing both the belt and the fan clutch and that resolved the problem. if you want more detail regarding this let me know.
Just a suggestion, but when you have the oil and filter changed, you might also want to change the fuel filter (and the air filter).
Joan, looks like the air filter has been replaced a couple of times, last done about 5,000 miles ago. I don’t see in the Ford manual where it calls for the fuel filter to be replaced as scheduled maintenance. Looks like I may be a bit behind on the 30k mile service, though. Currently just over 35k miles.
There are quite a few maintenance services that should be done in addition to those on the basic Ford maintenance schedule, e.g, changing the fuel filter every 15,000 miles. The fuel filter on the new-to-you 2017 may be the original; I’d replace it.
YMMV, as always.
Joan
Do you recall the approximate cost to replace the Fuel Filter on the V10?
Thanks,
Tony R (aka codefour)
The fuel filter itself is a $10-15 item from an auto supply source, but the shop mark-up on the part and the labor charge to install it may vary widely. For example, the local-to-me Ford truck center (and many other service shops in this area) charges over $200 per hour. Obviously, those prices will not be the everyone's experience.
You might want to call your shop and ask them what the part price is and get an estimate of the labor charge to install the filter. You might want to look on Rock Auto (one of many sources) to see what the filter "can" looks like. I watched the process once; a special "hook" tool to release the filter, a bit of gas dripping down the sleeve of the mechanic, and fitting the new filter into the fuel line. I didn't time the process, but it was a pretty quick job.
When my rig has gone to the truck center, replacement of the fuel filter has been a pretty small line item on the total bill. :o
Is the filter located inside the gas tank?
Is the filter located inside the gas tank?
I believe it is, in searching I can't find one for the 2017 E450.
Charles
The fuel filter is located on the chassis frame rail on the driver's side, under the door/seat area, at least in my 2003.
It appears that later Ford E450s have a "non-serviceable" fuel filter. See the notation on this page:
https://owner.ford.com/support/how-tos/vehicle-care/fuel-filter-maintenance.html
Check your Ford manual; if it doesn't indicate a fuel filter part number or interval change, the fuel filter is not serviceable and in a location that is a mystery to me.
On edit: Rock Auto does not list a fuel filter "can" after 2016 Ford E-450 models, so 2017 models appear to have the "non-serviceable" fuel filter.
Thanks Joan
The fuel "PUMP" is located inside the fuel tank. I learned the hard way.
We had one fail on a previous RV (not LD), and the cost to drain, remove, and reinstall a new pump was well over the $400.00 mark.
Not to mention the tow, and overnight stay in the RV Repair yard.
Failure of the pump in the mountains, coming down a 6% grade was not a convenient time for this failure. Engine stops, surges, etc., and all of the POWER things you really enjoy (need) are gone.
It did give us some warning a few minutes before as it started losing power, but I didn't recognize the symptoms.
I didn't think about the fuel filter until Joan mentioned it earlier. Wonderful suggestion for the maintenance list.
It's these little gems that make the Forum special.
Tony R. (aka codefour)
On edit: Rock Auto does not list a fuel filter "can" after 2016 Ford E-450 models, so 2017 models appear to have the "non-serviceable" fuel filter.
Many vehicle's only fuel filter is located on the fuel pump assembly, located inside the fuel tank. The filter is normally good for the life of the fuel pump.
It appears that 2016+ LDs use this type of fuel filter.
Larry
Thanks, Larry!
I did a bit of research to learn about the basics of "fuel filters" in newer vehicles; according to what I read, the in-tank fuel filter is located on the fuel pump intake. To replace the in-tank filter (for whatever reason, e.g., fuel contamination, lack of fuel pressure) and/or the fuel pump, the fuel tank has to be dropped.. ( I can't think that this job could be done without draining the tank, but the motorheads on this forum can confirm this or not.) Additionally, if the mechanic isn't sure which component, the fuel filter or the fuel pump, is causing the problem, both are usually replaced when the tank is dropped.
Whenever any component has to be "dropped" to repair or replace something, the job can't help but be pricey, and replacing an in-tank fuel filter (and/or fuel pump) doesn't seem like it's an exception! I'm glad that my old rig has a pretty simple in-line "can" filter!
"Whenever any component has to be "dropped" to repair or replace something, the job can't help but be pricey, and replacing an in-tank fuel filter (and/or fuel pump) doesn't seem like it's an exception! I'm glad that my old rig has a pretty simple in-line "can" filter!"
I agree totally, Joan, a clogged fuel filter is no fun to deal with. We had one finally go on our 2000MB near some small town in AZ many years ago. Luckily, I was able to limp in to a Truck Repair place in a town that had a NAPA store. To make a long story short, the truck repair place was willing to do the replacement if I could come up with the filter. NAPA had it, but when we went to install it, we discovered we needed a special tool to remove the old one. NAPA had it too, so an hour later, out $50, I was on my way. Talk about luck. Needless to say, I carried a spare filter and the tool forever more. For a rig that is on the road, filling up at unknown stations, especially when we use the back roads, I can't imagine why a fuel filter should ever be located inside the tank.
Rich
Additionally, if the mechanic isn't sure which component, the fuel filter or the fuel pump, is causing the problem, both are usually replaced when the tank is dropped.
Whenever any component has to be "dropped" to repair or replace something, the job can't help but be pricey, and replacing an in-tank fuel filter (and/or fuel pump) doesn't seem like it's an exception! I'm glad that my old rig has a pretty simple in-line "can" filter!
While the fuel pump's filter almost never plugs up, if it or the fuel pump goes bad, the tank needs to be dropped, an expensive and complicated task.
Changing our 2003"s fuel pump was an all-day affair. It is best done with an empty tank, to reduce the tank's weight and to reduce the sloshing of fuel. The tank is made of steel and is very heavy.
Fuel pump replacement | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157684915984705/) fuel..
Larry
While the fuel pump's filter almost never plugs up, if it or the fuel pump goes bad, the tank needs to be dropped, an expensive and complicated task.
Changing our 2003"s fuel pump was an all-day affair. It is best done with an empty tank, to reduce the tank's weight and to reduce the sloshing of fuel. The tank is made of steel and is very heavy.
Fuel pump replacement | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157684915984705/) fuel..
Yeah, I’m not doing that! 😳
I don't know the incidence of fuel pump failure with "older" E-450s, but I sure hope that the pump in my tank doesn't go south any time, let alone when I'm on the road. (Provided that I ever get that opportunity again!) I do replace the in-line filter every 15k miles (or close), never let the tank get below about 20 gallons to keep the pump sock "immersed" in gas, and the tank is always "full" when the rig has to sit. I think I'm doing the right stuff to ward off a failure, but sometimes one is the pigeon, and sometimes one is the statue! ;)
Hi Greg. Interesting things pop up on YouTube and a search for "Ford V10 sounds like a can of marbles being shaken" yields all sorts of things from 'thats normal' to outright 'disaster'. I watched a video on a smaller engine, but the same modular triton as our V10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPFv0veBO8k about the 5:15 mark, to give you a good scare.
So Larry, you've heard this? On the engine you have now? My engine is the older V10, the 1997-1999 model. I haven't heard it (yet). I do use the Mobil 1 5W30 as stated on my firewall sticker.
One supposition was a loose transmission inspection plate banging around. RonB
Thanks for that, Ron. That is a similar noise but luckily I haven’t heard it at engine idle. I noticed it when I was cruising between 2000 - 2500 RPM, usually going up a slight incline, or when accelerating. However, sometimes it would just start doing it on its own for a while and then stop. Going to get a smog check and DMV registration on Monday so will try and record the noise and perhaps email it to one of the engine gurus on the forum. Also, on Wednesday I am taking it to an RV/automotive shop in Lancaster and will have them change the oil and go through everything.
Regarding a rattle-like noise, if it's not a ping (marbles in a can-like sound that happens only under load), look at any heat shielding on the front end of the engine exhaust plumbing to see if it might be a little "wiggly".
On the trip back to California from Florida, I noticed a noise from the engine area. Hard to describe since my hearing is not the best but it was a type of rattling noise. It happened frequently when accelerating or going up a grade.
About a year ago, I started a post "2017 MB: Strange Noises." It involved three separate noises: creaking from the suspension, a droning/humming from the transmission, and a ticking noise from the engine. The ticket noise from the engine only occurred between 65-70 mph and stopped whenever I let off the accelerator. I tried a higher octane of gas during a trip out west, but still had the ticking noise. I found a Youtube video "Ford 6.8 V10 Triton ticking noise" - https://youtu.be/fSmXgaxR3AA - that had the exact noise. The person tried recording the ticking noise, but the engine noise is too loud. I could hear it when I listened with headphones, specially at the :40 mark. I also posted my experience there as well. I took my MB to a Ford Truck repair place and they determined it was a faulty alternator and replaced it under warranty. I took a trip to Florida and the ticking noise came back. I returned from Florida and went back to the repair place. But found out in the meantime that they stopped repairing RVs. I took it to another repair place and they determined it was a faulty Serpentine Belt. They replaced it. I have since put 5,000 miles on the MB and the ticking has not come back.
Thanks, Glenn, that does sound like the noise. When I take it in for service on Wednesday, I’ll mention that to the service writer. 👍
Our ticking noise was from the idler pulley. I had pulley and belt replaced and noise went away.
Glenn, looking and listening to the video again, I noticed that the noise in the video was occurring at the same range as mine, 2000-2500 RPM.
Greg, seems like quite a few E450 owners have experienced this issue. Here's a link to review my-triton-v10-sounds-awful (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/my-triton-v10-sounds-awful-480290-4.html#post5556347) .
Charles
Greg, seems like quite a few E450 owners have experienced this issue. Here's a link to review my-triton-v10-sounds-awful (https://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/my-triton-v10-sounds-awful-480290-4.html#post5556347) .
Thanks for posting, Charles. Sounds like it could be a couple different things. Hopefully I can get it figured out when I go in for service on Wednesday. I did crawl underneath the RV yesterday to ensure that nothing was flapping around down there as far as I can tell.
To manually check the idlers, remove the serpentine belt and spin the rollers by hand, they should spin smoothly with no indication of roughness. If going that far, changing the belt isn't a bad idea.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1591/26483648141_15bf6b0114_w.jpg)
Larry
Turns out the noise was the serpentine belt. Now I have a shiny new one and the old glazed one is an emergency spare. Thanks for all your input!
I was feeling pretty good as I was able to get several things done today, including the smog and California registration, then when I was almost home the “service engine” light came on. Arghhhh! I have a code reader so will try to see what’s going on tomorrow. It’s always something, isn’t It?
"Turns out the noise was the serpentine belt."
I may be dating myself but I remember from some time back that you could buy a 'belt dressing' to quiet a noisy belt, no??
"Turns out the noise was the serpentine belt."
I may be dating myself but I remember from some time back that you could buy a 'belt dressing' to quiet a noisy belt, no??
Probably true but the service advisor made a good point: the serpentine belt controls everything and if it goes, you’re out of business. Since it was almost 4 years old, I decided to play it safe, and now I have a spare!
"Since it was almost 4 years old..."
So, if I understand where you're coming from I guess I should change my sixteen year old belt? :D :(
"Since it was almost 4 years old..."
So, if I understand where you're coming from I guess I should change my sixteen-year-old belt? :D :(
Your serpentine belt is living on borrowed time, how about the radiator and heater hoses, are they original too?
When the belt is replaced, make sure the mechanic check the condition of the idlers, fan clutch and water pump bearings.
Larry
Your serpentine belt is living on borrowed time, how about the radiator and heater hoses, are they original too?
When the belt is replaced, make sure the mechanic check the condition of the idlers, fan clutch and water pump bearings. Larry
My 2004 E450 Scheduled Maintenance Guide shows an inspection at 100,000 miles, and a replacement at 150,000 miles - no time limits specified. So, it seems like Ford thinks highly of it's belt. My belt is 16 years old, 60,000 miles, and looked perfect when I examined it recently. Is there any reason to think the listed intervals are too long?
My 2004 E450 Scheduled Maintenance Guide shows an inspection at 100,000 miles, and a replacement at 150,000 miles - no time limits specified. So, it seems like Ford thinks highly of it's belt. My belt is 16 years old, 60,000 miles, and looked perfect when I examined it recently. Is there any reason to think the listed intervals are too long?
Age as well as miles causes the belt to slowly decay.
Inspecting the belt for glazing on the smooth side and cracking between the teeth on the other side, when bent backward, is suggested annually.
Larry