I was surprised to get this feedback survey from the mothership given their reputation for not being inclined to modify their build to suit customer request. (We are RV newbies and just bought our 31 IB in December.)
I wondered if anyone here would have a comment for:
#8 What specific feature(s) would you like to have had available at time of purchase for your new motorhome?
#15. Please comment on any item you would like to see improved on for future models.
Maybe I can include some good ideas on my response form - an opportunity to give some feedback from the experienced LD community.
"I was surprised to get this feedback survey..."
Ah ha! Looks like they have resurrected an old policy. This, or one like it, was SOP prior to 2004. Wonder why they dropped it then and brought it back to life now? ::)
Thank you VERY much for providing us with this request. Steve and family while providing a quality motorhome could have easily done better if the cared to.
Having owned 2 other MHs' prior to our 2007 31 foot, we do have some experience as to what was available.
One of the big annoyances has been no water pump switch in the bath room. How many times have we all gone in there only to have forgotten to turn the pump. Our previous MH had such a switch. Driver's seat does not go back far enough. Using standard RV industry key locks on outside compartments, just about anyone can open these compartments. A ceiling vent- 2 way fan over the bed compartment! Option, carpet or wood floors. Well, this is enough for now, if I think of something else,will chime in.
Bob
One of the big annoyances has been no water pump switch in the bath room. How many times have we all gone in there only to have forgotten to turn the pump. Our previous MH had such a switch.
I added such a switch to our '83, which had plumbing fittings prone to developing cracks with resulting leaks. Our '04 has more reliable PEX plumbing, so the pump is on whenever we are on board and not enroute.
Steve
We actually received the survey with our ‘15 RB. I couldn’t think of anything to add so I kept the survey as a memento.
Now I wish we could have been able to open the fridge door while the closet door closed off the bathroom area. Ya never know when you’ll need a cold drink while taking that 6 minute shower. ☔️
Kent
#8 - extra electrical plug ins listed as an actual option rather then an apparently unlisted option.
-four batteries instead of two when this is practical as a factory install on some models
-more solar power as an option
-an additional battery monitor that gives a percentage read out as an option
#15-a redesign of the end caps to make them less prone to cracking
Frank
The best suggestion I have is to slightly dome the roof and eliminate Lake Newton.
Larry
Right on Frank and Larry.
Bob
Replace the side coach entry door that is prone to warping at the top with one similar to what Phoenix Cruiser now uses that is a more solid design with home-style latches (see photos). In place of the screen door PC uses a roll-away screen curtain. That type of screen may not work with pets though. I think that the retaining clip at the top of the LD door to hold the door open may play a roll in the warping over time. Possibly a retaining bar at the mid door position would help this warping issue.
Bring back the traditional Lazy Daze striping and what Larry said! 👍👍
We got the survey after picking up our 17 LD. Our comments were to go to winegard auto satellite system from TracVision, go to a a different local antenna, find a better converter system that the fan does not run all the time, and a stainless steel sink would be nice. Most of these requests are now in the new LDs. The fabric we got was flawed, but they replaced most of it. Perhaps better fabric if this continues to be a problem.
1. Add the 'Andy Baird' cabinet.
2. Air stream covers on all roof vents.
3 (smile) cat door on bathroom door.
Glen
The best suggestion I have is to slightly dome the roof and eliminate Lake Newton.
Larry
That was one of the things I wrote to Steve about back in 2008. They adopted most of the items on my list, though I doubt my letter was the cause of the changes.
I was surprised to get this feedback survey from the mothership given their reputation for not being inclined to modify their build to suit customer request. (We are RV newbies and just bought our 31 IB in December.)
I wondered if anyone here would have a comment for:
#8 What specific feature(s) would you like to have had available at time of purchase for your new motorhome?
#15. Please comment on any item you would like to see improved on for future models.
Maybe I can include some good ideas on my response form - an opportunity to give some feedback from the experienced LD community.
Stay-close drawers.
Chris
Go big or go home:
Provide the option to build the Lazy Daze on a chassis with a limited slip diff.
Dream bigger? 4X4 with a bit more ground clearance would be nice.
If I were ordering a new Lazy Daze now, there'd be a lot of things I'd want improved: a meaningful battery monitor (Balmar's new SG200 (https://www.amazon.com/CDI-Electronics-SG200-Battery-Monitor/dp/B07KGSS6DV/ref=sr_1_14?keywords=balmar+sg200&qid=1581270148&sr=8-14) looks like a good solution), optional added solar panels and LiFePO4 batteries, and more.
But the first priority by a long shot should be minimizing leaks. The end caps need to be rethought--preferably made from aluminum, so their expansion rate is the same as the body's. And for heaven's sake, drain Lake Newton!
When you have a wooden frame, any water intrusion is potentially disastrous. The roof should have been changed from flat to cambered decades ago. It's inexcusable that water pools up there, especially around the air conditioner. And the solution is not to slather on great globs of sealant that will need to be replaced in a few years, as the factory does now. It's to reengineer the roof and end caps so that water doesn't sit up there.
This needs to be at the top of LD's list.
When the right end cap on our rig was replaced a year or so ago, I asked Vince why they were not made of aluminum.
“Cost to the consumer”, was his response.
Lazy Daze did not want to add the extra cost to price of a LD figuring it would deter buyers. I kind of doubt that would have done much to sway me from buying our rig.
The ABS end caps is probably one of LD’s weakest links.
Kent
Provide the option to build the Lazy Daze on a chassis with a limited slip diff.
Dream bigger? 4X4 with a bit more ground clearance would be nice.
Why mess with a limited slip axle when you can have a locker.
DANA 70HD/80 ARB RD172 - 35 SPLINE 4 SERIES (https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-138645-dana-70hd-80-arb-rd172-35-spline-4-series.html)
Installing it is a bit of work, I thought about it when rebuilding the rear differential.
Axle rebuild-D70 HD | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157681746622164/)
If a limited slip is still wanted, the best is the Eaton Truetrac, it has no clutches to wear out. I have run them in several vehicles without any issues.
TT504038 (https://www.justdifferentials.com/TT504038-p/tt504038.htm)
If Ford designed a low profile 4X4 option for the E450, and increase the GVW to handle the added weight, I would want one,
The existing 4X4 aftermarket conversions are heavy and sit too high for RV use, IMO.
It has amazed me how the rig has pulled the Jeep through sand and snow without complaints. With the majority of the weight on the rear duals, it has a lot of traction, I have never experienced wheel spin, even in the snow.
Larry
"Why mess with a limited slip axle when you can have a locker."
I had a Detroit Locker on my '77 IH Scout. I played 'gopher' for the guy who did the install. That way I got an up close and personal view, wasn't all that hard to do even on his front gravel driveway and no lift. :o ;)
That Scout would nearly climb trees!
My right end cap cracked immediately after purchasing my '16 MB. Warranty would have applied except that I live in Idaho and don't get to southern California often. I've assumed this has to be a factory fix. I don't understand how the consumer is saving money with this weak link. Maybe make the aluminum one an option!
I suggest sending some of these suggestions to Vince since he appears to have at least some interest in what we think. Frank
Larry,
Interesting suggestions and considerations for when the standard pieces wear out..
Too bad Lazy Daze wasn't able (or willing) to obtain the optional Ford 4:56 limited slip rear axle which is offered as an option on the cutaway chassis. Here is the factory option for our 2014:
http://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/brochures/2014/2014_E350_E450_COMMERCIAL_CUTAWAY_CHASSIS.pdf
"I suggest sending some of these suggestions to Vince since he appears to have at least some interest in what we think."
----
Vince no longer works at Lazy Daze; as far as I know, he is now with Leisure Coachworks in Fontana.
RV Repair Southern California | RV Repair Shop in Southern California -... (https://leisurecw.com/)
"My right end cap cracked immediately after purchasing my '16 MB. Warranty would have applied except that I live in Idaho and don't get to southern California often. I've assumed this has to be a factory fix. I don't understand how the consumer is saving money with this weak link. Maybe make the aluminum one an option!"
Hey Kool83704
We were told when we picked up our rig in December 2019 that if we found any problems that would be covered under the warranty that we should document them. Then we could contact the factory and let them know about it and they would correct it next time we were in Montclair - even if it was a year or so later. We live in the Philadelphia area (and retire in June) so it would probably be a year before we got back to the West coast. This information is also provided in the owner's manual under "Repairs & Limited Warranties". Maybe that was not the policy when you purchased your rig.
But the first priority by a long shot should be minimizing leaks. The end caps need to be rethought--preferably made from aluminum, so their expansion rate is the same as the body's. And for heaven's sake, drain Lake Newton!.
I agree a better way of attaching caps is needed but it does seem that later models LDs do not have as big a problem with lifting and cracking. It may be matter of time.
What I would like to see is a better, permanent way of sealing the drain channel behind the end caps, so if the caps leak, the wood framing stays dry. LD attempts to do this by coating the wood with sealant but the sealant can and does fail.
LDs already have aluminum caps along the roof's front to back edges and I have never seen a roof cap crack or break loose.
There is a good chance LD has already tried using aluminum end caps and found they did not work or work any better.
Caps break from expansion, being forced to fit and flexing.
Flex is especially a problem in the rear end caps and one thing aluminum hates is flexing. Flex aluminum and it will eventually, it does not have steel's ability to flex without damage, within a certain range of movement. Plastics are much more tolerant to flexing.
A bare plastic end cap is very flexible, allowing it to fit even when corners or an edge do line up perfectly. Each LD is handmade and slight variations in wall dimensions show up. Sometimes things fit together great, other times things are off a little and the discrepancy is adjusted by flexing and twisting the caps. Some rigs collect cap cracks, others never have an issue.
Our 2003 LD's end caps are still crack free, I have friends who LD's end caps cracked within a year or two of being new.
Holding higher tolerances during construction would be one way of reducing some of the problems .
Larry
Thank you VERY much for providing us with this request. Steve and family while providing a quality motorhome could have easily done better if the cared to.
Having owned 2 other MHs' prior to our 2007 31 foot, we do have some experience as to what was available.
One of the big annoyances has been no water pump switch in the bath room. How many times have we all gone in there only to have forgotten to turn the pump. Our previous MH had such a switch. Driver's seat does not go back far enough. Using standard RV industry key locks on outside compartments, just about anyone can open these compartments. A ceiling vent- 2 way fan over the bed compartment! Option, carpet or wood floors. Well, this is enough for now, if I think of something else,will chime in.
Bob
Hey Bob Wilson - I agree with your "water pump switch in the bathroom" - many times I found myself in the bathroom without remembering to turn on the switch. I also was not thrilled to hear that all the outside compartments could be opened with a standard key that anyone could get their hands on. We have some expensive items in those compartments - Viair compressor, surge protector, tools, etc. But I am happy to report that there is a 2-way fan over the bed (31IB), and the floors are a nice "wood look" linoleum everywhere except the truck cab. So I am happy about that - much easier to keep clean.
I also was not thrilled to hear that all the outside compartments could be opened with a standard key that anyone could get their hands on. We have some expensive items in those compartments - Viair compressor, surge protector, tools, etc.
Replace the CH751 locks with round keys.
This company sells keyed-alike custom length round locks. Print the guide chart to match your existing locks.
INDUSTRIAL LOCK & HARDWARE – Replace your Ch751 RV locks. (https://shoprvlocks.com)
Measuring Guide – INDUSTRIAL LOCK & HARDWARE (https://shoprvlocks.com/measuring-guide/)
I suggest getting the backing plates for each lock to add strength and durability .
Backing Plate – INDUSTRIAL LOCK & HARDWARE (https://shoprvlocks.com/product/backing-plate/)
Since the exterior compartments can be pried open with a big screwdriver, the best these and any lock can do is to discourage a thief enough to move on to the next RV, the one with CH751 locks.
Locks keep honest people honest.
Larry
But the first priority by a long shot should be minimizing leaks. The end caps need to be rethought--preferably made from aluminum, so their expansion rate is the same as the body's. And for heaven's sake, drain Lake Newton!
When you have a wooden frame, any water intrusion is potentially disastrous. The roof should have been changed from flat to cambered decades ago. It's inexcusable that water pools up there, especially around the air conditioner. And the solution is not to slather on great globs of sealant that will need to be replaced in a few years, as the factory does now. It's to reengineer the roof and end caps so that water doesn't sit up there.
This needs to be at the top of LD's list.
I agree. Airstream redirects their Air Conditioner runoff water to go down thru the walls to the ground (not dump onto the roof). Pretty easy to do.
I agree leak prevention including discouraging the ability for water to pool on the roof should be at the top of the list.
Jane
"Airstream redirects their Air Conditioner runoff water to go down thru the walls to the ground (not dump onto the roof). Pretty easy to do."
That said, on my Airstream I've had to ream out those tubes a couple of times. Dust gets into the air conditioner base and turns to mud when the base fills with condensate, clogging the upper portion of the tube. But it's still better than draining onto the roof and down the side.
However, that's not the Lake Newton I'n talking about. It's the one that forms anytime it rains. Especially around the air conditioner--whose weight makes the roof sag in the center over time--but also elsewhere on the roof.
Andy, I was going to ask. Shoot, I was hopeful those tubes worked and only needed cleaning out every 10 years or so.
Most roofing doesn't do well with standing water over time (TPO membrane is the only one I know of that is fine with long term standing water). That is why I have never liked the idea of standing water on the roof after heavy rains/heavy air conditioner usage. And tilting the LD even a touch creates other issues - everything has that slight tilt inside affecting things like splashed water/liquids on the kitchen countertop & cooktop and where that liquid puddles. Same for spilled liquid on the floor. Probably even in the fridge though that one might be good as the liquid would go towards the front and easier to see it. Just something to be aware of and handled/managed. Standing liquids is never good.
It seems a slight tilt in the roof (with a ridgeline in the middle going from cab to back and extra insullation) would be easy to add in, but then openings for vents and Air Conditioner would need some rethinking because the depth is different in different places.
However, Airstream with the rounded roofs must also address that issue and I would bet they work fine with standard vents/air conditioners openings.
Jane
During one of our three visits to the mother ship, I asked Todd why Lazy Daze doesn't crest the top of the coach to eliminate standing water. He said that it makes sealing the air conditioner harder and you just trade one problem for another. He might have been BS'ing me and he might have just been tired of my questions about things I wanted on the Lazy Daze to which he would say "We don't do that."
HD
This would be nice. From a Nash trailer.
One of the things we liked about the Hi-Lo trailer was the crowned roof. Sealed fine around the AC unit. Too bad Lazy Daze can’t figure out a way to do it.
"I was hopeful those tubes worked and only needed cleaning out every 10 years or so."
I'm in a dusty area. And the openings in the air conditioner "pan" that let the condensate water out are small enough that if dust builds up in the pan, clogging is likely. If the tubes and openings were the size of garden hose, this wouldn't happen, but that would be impractical. Instead, they are small (maybe a quarter inch I.D.) so that they can easily be routed through the walls. In short, I'm not really sure how this could be done better.
As for trading one problem for another, I don't buy it. Most of the RVs I see going down the road have curved roofs. Yes, you have to reconcile that with a straight front and rear, but dozens of other manufacturers manage it. Lazy Daze just doesn't like to change the way they do things. That helps keep costs down, so it's not always a bad thing, but in this case I think a change is long overdue.
Greg,
Ah Ha. In that HiLo trailer, they have a flat spot likely about 26-28" wide which holds the Air Conditioner and Vent, with sloping sides down from that flat spot on both sides. So not a continuous curve, a curve with a flattened top.
You get mostly a sloping roof (except that middle strip that holds the air conditioner and vents).
That would work a whole lot better and it is enough of a slope down that if things sink an inch or so around the Air Conditioner likely most of the water would still go down the slope.
Jane
Many of the Class A motorhomes have flat roofs (we have had 2 Tiffins with flat roofs), but they run a drain line to the side of the coach.
One issue having a domed roof, while maintaining the existing front and rear caps, is that the one piece roof would not be flat, instead slightly convex.
Retaining the one piece roof while producing the convex shape normally requires stamping or a tremendous amount of hand shaping, either way a big increase in cost or labor.
To make it simpler to build, the front and rear would need to be domed shaped too, requiring a new set of molds, new roofing and rear wall templates and a different look to the front and rear rooflines.
LD's have a one piece roof that runs half way down the rear wall and the rear wall would still be flat, keeping the one piece roof and rear wall would be complex thing to shape. The roof sheet metal would probably need to be cut into two pieces, one for the roof and the rear wall, introducing another seam to potentially leak.
IMO, it would be a worthwhile change but I'm not sure Steve would be willing to spend the cash and time needed to make it work at this point in his career.
Larry
OR make the front and back joiners just a tad lower then the middle studs.
Of course it's very easy to be a side walk foreman.......
Glen
All the new features in the 2021 LD certainly sound wonderful. I’d be tempted to get on The List if my body wasn’t an old, sorry bucket of rusty bolts that isn’t up to accumulating debt at this point of retirement. But I confess ... I’ve pondered this matter from time to time.
1. Add the 'Andy Baird' cabinet.
2. Air stream covers on all roof vents.
3 (smile) cat door on bathroom door.
Glen
Glen,
I had a good giggle at your cat door comment.
I just installed a cat door in "Ophelia" I sacrificed the storage compartment under my couch by the entry door. Along with the larger exterior compartment just behind passenger door.
I put Sages private bathroom for easy exterior daily cleaning.
I did have to cut a second cat door in the plywood wall between the compartments.
I installed battery operated motion sensor lights so Sage isn't eating or doing her business in the dark.
I call the space her "
Cattio" cat condo
And my bionic nose wil be fairly safe if she uses her private bathroom in the middle of the night.
Juanita
P.S.
She had a similar set up in my travel trailer that worked very well!
I call the space her "Cattio" cat condo
Juanita
Had I not put in a ramp for three many dogs, I'd be amazed at the accommodations LD owners make for their non-two legged group members.
:)
Joel
Optional items: 1. On board surge protector, 2. "Tireman" style valve extensions, 3. Electric outlet on the rear wall of Mid-baths, between the rear couches, 4. Ports at kitchen table and rear wall for phone charging, 5. Built in WiFi in the coach, 6. Cell phone signal booster, 7. Non-common locks on outside compartments.
Bob
"Optional items: 1.", etc., etc.
Wishing you good luck with that, or even ¼ of those choices. I can visualize Steve Newton rolling on the floor at this moment! :o 8)
Optional items: 1. On board surge protector, 2. "Tireman" style valve extensions, 3. Electric outlet on the rear wall of Mid-baths, between the rear couches, 4. Ports at kitchen table and rear wall for phone charging, 5. Built in WiFi in the coach, 6. Cell phone signal booster, 7. Non-common locks on outside compartments
Extra plugs are a Factory option, the rest of your wish list will need to be installed after delivery by someone else.
All has been done before and documented on the forum.
Larry