Recently, I noticed two strange noises while driving our 2017 MB. The first is a humming noise that starts exactly between 65-70 MPH. I do not feel any vibration - just this humming/moaning noise. No, it's not my stomach or coming from my wife :) It stops if I back off the accelerator. The other noise is a creaking noise like a bad bedspring. It happens whenever I'm stopped and then start - like at a traffic light. At first I thought it was coming from the brakes. But I can sometimes duplicate it by standing on the door step and use my weight to rock the RV. I'm going to be taking it in for my oil change soon and was going to mention this to the mechanic. I thought I would just seek some guidance from the forum.
The first thing I'd check is all storage compartments and cupboards. Maybe move some things around and pad anything that might be rubbing. Pay attention to the heavier items. Frank
I can relate to the bad bed spring noise. I get an occasional noise like that on stops and starts, more so on the starts. I took it to a Ford Large truck service center, not a dealer. They sprayed some dry molly lube on the rear leaf springs and other areas that they felt might be causing the noise. That seemed to do the trick. It does return now and then so I carry a couple of cans of it with me.
Best,
Gary
Experiment for the humming noise - when it occurs, downshift, or take out of overdrive without changing speed. If the noise changes or disappears, it is likely the engine air intake noise. If so, check all components in the intake path for any problem. The squeak - see if it occurs when going from drive to reverse, while stopped. If so, then something chassis-related is shifting, and a second person outside might be able to narrow down the location.
Steve
Recently, I noticed two strange noises while driving our 2017 MB. The first is a humming noise that starts exactly between 65-70 MPH. I do not feel any vibration - just this humming/moaning noise. No, it's not my stomach or coming from my wife :) It stops if I back off the accelerator. The other noise is a creaking noise like a bad bedspring. It happens whenever I'm stopped and then start - like at a traffic light. At first I thought it was coming from the brakes. But I can sometimes duplicate it by standing on the door step and use my weight to rock the RV. I'm going to be taking it in for my oil change soon and was going to mention this to the mechanic. I thought I would just seek some guidance from the forum.
I was on a long trip with our 1990 going through lots of climbs and switchbacks so I was hyper alert to any noises or brake issues. Every time I stepped on the brakes I heard a clunk on my side near the front. Thought a caliper was hanging up or a shock.... Beer in fridge rolling forward.
"Thought a caliper was hanging up or a shock.... Beer in fridge rolling forward."
Funny! Same thing has happened to me a couple of times, because I have a small fridge in my car just behind the driver's seat.
I was on a long trip with our 1990 going through lots of climbs and switchbacks so I was hyper alert to any noises or brake issues. Every time I stepped on the brakes I heard a clunk on my side near the front. Thought a caliper was hanging up or a shock.... Beer in fridge rolling forward.
Perhaps a Jagermeister?
There is one thing I forgot about. Late last year, while we were outside New Orleans, I had a outer dually tire blow out. Instead of having the spare put on, it was replaced with a new tire. Since our MD was only 1 year old, I didn't think the new tire would be that much of a mismatch. I'm wondering if it's this "mismatched" tire that is causing the humming/droning noise. Again, it only occurs exactly between 65-70 mph.
There is one thing I forgot about. Late last year, while we were outside New Orleans, I had a outer dually tire blow out. Instead of having the spare put on, it was replaced with a new tire. Since our MD was only 1 year old, I didn't think the new tire would be that much of a mismatch. I'm wondering if it's this "mismatched" tire that is causing the humming/droning noise. Again, it only occurs exactly between 65-70 mph.
Rotate one of the front wheels into the position of the new tire, to see if it makes any difference.
Humming, while accelerating, can be cause by a multitude of things, including a noisy rear axle, a bad u-joint or carrier bearing..
I wouldn't expect to see these issues on such a new LD.
Larry
Actually I have heard of such a whistling noise cause by a tie rod adjustment. In that vehicle there was a split sleeve on the tie rod that left a small cavity. When turned just right it would whistle in the slip stream. The person found a mechanic that stuffed some non hardening 'goo' in the hole, problem solved. I think I remember a similar instance where an antenna would resonate at a particular speed. It's hard to believe that that could be loud enough to be heard at 65 mph.
I'm going to go with a bearing in a U joint. Check that the rubber boots are intact, and there is no looseness in just one of the four bearings per u-joint. Manufacturing defects, although rare, can show up earlier than expected. Ronb
I have a scheduled appointment this Thursday to have them check out the humming noise and the creaking noise. I'll update this post with what they find out.
I think I know the humming sound you are hearing. I don't really know what it is, but it seems to be generated from under the hood, on my 2005 mid-bath. I've heard it practically from day 1. Pretty close to how you describe it. The engine will be running steadily, sounding normal, then another sound kicks in - like a vibration. Has never seemed to affect anything, so I've never made more of an issue of it.
David G.
The engine will be running steadily, sounding normal, then another sound kicks in - like a vibration. Has never seemed to affect anything, so I've never made more of an issue of it.
This would probably be the thermal-clutched engine-driven fan.
Steve
So I took my LD in to a Ford Truck repair place. I've been going there for years. I described to them the humming noise I get between 65-70 mph. One of the mechanics took it out on the nearby freeway. He said the sound seems to be coming from the transmission. I told the manager that I'm about to go on a 2 month trip from Michigan to Florida, New Mexico, and then back to Michigan. I really needed to know if I should have the proper sense of panic. He said that if it's a transmission problem, they couldn't schedule any repair for at least two weeks. He said he will have two of his transmission gurus take it for a ride tomorrow and see what their guess is. I mentioned (what someone had suggested from this thread) if it could be something to do with the thermal clutch engine drive fan. He said in order to check that out would require dropping the transmission which could not be done with their current backlog of work. So it may be that my decision is going to be to go on our trip and "roll the dice" and hope for the best.
Following this thread, because I have a 2017 MB that does the same thing. I haven't had it out since July, and it was our first trip (we are 2nd owners). But if I remember correctly, there was a noise above 65 mph like you described. I rarely go that fast, so it wasn't noticeable most of the time at a normal cruise speed, but it did concern me somewhat.
I might have ours out on the road next week.
Please post any updates.
I mentioned (what someone had suggested from this thread) if it could be something to do with the thermal clutch engine drive fan. He said in order to check that out would require dropping the transmission which could not be done with their current backlog of work.
The cooling fan's thermal clutch is mounted on the front of the engine and has nothing to do with the transmission.
It is normally only heard in very hot conditions or when climbing steep grades, the exception being the clutch will sometimes momentarily engage for a few seconds when first accelerating. The clutch's bearings can be checked by removing the fan belt and spinning the fan, feeling for smooth, tight motion. The clutch can be defective, even with good bearings but any noises would increase with engine speed, not road speed.
Has the shop lifted the LD and run it in gear, to see if the driveshaft and other driveline parts look OK?
An out of balance driveshaft could have a critical speed in which is vibrates violently enough to be felt or heard.
Better shops will have a remote microphone set up that uses one or more microphones, that get attached to various parts of the vehicle, that allow listening while driving the vehicle.
I use an old cell phone, with the audio recorder turned on, to record suspicious noises while driving. The phone gets placed, attached with zip-ties or duct tape, on or close to various possible sources of noises and then driven. It seems crude but it sometimes is the only way to find the exact source of a noise. I have used this method to locate suspension, driveshaft, axle and differential noises.
A pair of FRS handheld radios can also be used to listen to noises live, as the transmit button can be taped to stay in the "on" position. Attach a radio to the transmission and take it for a ride and see if a loud noise occurs in the 65-70 range. If a loud noise is heard, move the radio to another position, away from the transmission and see if the noise level decreases. It can take a few tries, but with patience, the location can be narrowed down.
Larry
Recently, I noticed two strange noises while driving our 2017 MB. The first is a humming noise that starts exactly between 65-70 MPH. I do not feel any vibration - just this humming/moaning noise. No, it's not my stomach or coming from my wife :) It stops if I back off the accelerator. The other noise is a creaking noise like a bad bedspring. It happens whenever I'm stopped and then start - like at a traffic light. At first I thought it was coming from the brakes. But I can sometimes duplicate it by standing on the door step and use my weight to rock the RV. I'm going to be taking it in for my oil change soon and was going to mention this to the mechanic. I thought I would just seek some guidance from the forum.
After a short trip (500 miles) this past weekend, I'd say the humming noise that I hear is from the rear on mine. Transmission doesn't make sense for me. That would be louder and closer to the cab. What did the shop say about your transmission ?
Could it be a slightly mismatched tire ?
After a short trip (500 miles) this past weekend, I'd say the humming noise that I hear is from the rear on mine.
Have your tried having someone sit in the rear, next to where the rear axle is located, and listen to for the noise?
When our LD's rear axle spun a pinion bearing, my wife could clearly hear and located the noise by standing right above the axle, while we were on the freeway.
Larry
After a short trip (500 miles) this past weekend, I'd say the humming noise that I hear is from the rear on mine. Transmission doesn't make sense for me. That would be louder and closer to the cab. What did the shop say about your transmission ?
Could it be a slightly mismatched tire ?
Well, here is the latest update on this thread I started. Things have gotten a little more complicated. When I was showing the humming sound to my wife, she said she has heard that sound since we got the MB new in Oct 2017 (she thought I heard it). Keep in mind, the sound only occurs between 65-70 MPG, which about the only time I'm in that range is when passing someone or getting out of someone's way. Then I remembered that I got hearing aids this past May. Which - by the way - has allowed me to hear all kinds of new sounds I never heard before. And so I began hearing this humming sound at our next outing at Labor Day weekend.
When I took the MB in for an oil change in preparation for our October to December RV wandering, I told them about the humming noise. The place is a Ford Fleet Truck repair place that I've been going to for a few years. Well, since they service all kinds of trucks, they were swamped. It took two weeks to get an oil change - there are scarce places for me to go in my area. General RV and Camping World are not candidates. But two of their transmission specialists took the MB for a ride and said it could be the drive shaft. It would be 3 weeks before they could look at it. We were leaving on our trip in two days.
So thinking that the unlike tire (Firestone) on the outer dually might be the cause either because it's mismatched or not balanced, I had them replace it with the Michelin spare and make sure its balanced. They were able to fit that task in. I tried it on one of our local freeways and the humming noise is still there between 65-70 MPG.
So, we have left on our journey from Michigan to Florida and I make sure I don't go past 65 MPG. A few times, I have tested it and still the humming noise begins at 65 and ends at 70. If I take my foot off of the accelerator between 65-70, the humming stops. If I go past 70 to 75 and let the RV coast down to 70, there is no noise. I even let the RV coast down one of the West Virginia hills from 65 to 75, and there was no noise.
When we return from our trip, we will have put on enough miles for another oil change. I will schedule another service trip and make sure they have plenty of time to check out the various components suggested in this thread.
Glen,
Your “noise” sure sounds a lot like the drive line vibration I experienced on our new 27 MB a few months ago. I’ve attached a link to the thread where numerous possible causes were raised for your additional consideration. As Larry said, an out of round/balance drive shaft may be at fault.
Good luck getting it diagnosed and corrected. An out of balance drive line can not only cause an annoying noise / vibration, it can also damage the transmission and or differential.
Warren
Drive Line Vibration (https://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=33627.msg206177#msg206177)
The only recall on a related Ford driveshaft issue that I found was for the 2015-2017 Transit; link here.
Safety Recall 17S15 – Driveshaft Flexible Coupling Replacement – 2015-2017... (https://ford.oemdtc.com/2874/safety-recall-17s15-driveshaft-flexible-coupling-replacement-2015-2017-ford-transit)
Plugging your truck's VIN into the NHTSA site might offer some information, but, as far as I know, there is no TSB or recall on E-450 driveshafts. (Something could come up later; vehicle manufacturers may not issue recalls until the "numbers" force them to. ::) )
Check for Recalls: Vehicle, Car Seat, Tire, Equipment | NHTSA (https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls)
As Warren said, Glen's "noise" and vibration sounds like an out-of-balance or defective driveshaft; I hope that this can be resolved by a thorough inspection and accurate diagnosis. I can imagine how frustrating and annoying this issue would be in any vehicle, but particularly in such "young" vehicles.
Please post when the issue is diagnosed and the problem fixed!
an out of round/balance drive shaft may be at fault.
Good luck getting it diagnosed and corrected. An out of balance drive line can not only cause an annoying noise / vibration, it can also damage the transmission and or differential.
An out of balance drive-line can cause very serious damage. Producing a noticeable vibration in a heavy vehicle requires a lot of force.
Lifting the vehicle, using jacks stands under the the axles and running it in gear up the critical speed, is one method shops use to see what is causing a vibration. If way out of balance, the drive shafts can bounce very violently .
The E450s are supposed to have Factory matched and balances driveshafts. If the two shafts are separated for service, such as replacing the u-joints or center support bearing, the shafts need to be marked so they go back together again as the original balanced assembly.
I assume you want Ford to fix it before it runs out of warranty. If Ford is too busy, look for a truck drive-line or drive-shaft shop.
You want to take care this sooner rather than later, if the shafts are out of balance, they are vibrating at lower speeds, not enough to be noticeable but enough to cause increased wear to the parts they are connected too, the center support bearing, rear axle or transmission.
From personal experience, transmission and axle repairs are very expensive.
Larry
An out of balance drive-line can cause very serious damage. Producing a noticeable vibration in a heavy vehicle requires a lot of force.
Larry
If the humming noise is due to an out-of-balance drive line, I’m puzzled as to why the noise doesn’t occur when the RV is coasting at 65-70. It only occurs when I have the accelerator pedal pushed.
Now I’m going to have to decide if I want to gamble and disrupt our traveling (we’re currently on St George Island, FL) and find a place to look at this.
Glenn,
Were it me, given your coach is still under warranty, I’d try and find a Ford Commercial Truck Center in route that will take your coach in and check the drive line for out-of-round/balance. Alternatively, you could have an RV Repair center check this. The test that Ford or the RV shop should perform requires lifting the coach and measuring run-out in several locations along the drive shaft(s) (mid-baths have two), with a dial micrometer. I’ve attached a link to a brief video showing how simple this procedure is so that you might consider whether to have it done by other than a Ford dealer. I recognize that this may not be practical and if so, I’d proceed driving below your problem speed until you can have the issue diagnosed & corrected.
ASE A3 - Measuring Drive Shaft Runout - Bergwall On Demand: Online Database... (https://www.bergwall.com/topic/ase-a3-measuring-drive-shaft-runout/)
As for the question why would the noise present only when power is applied, the drive-line may respond differently in a load versus no-load situation.
Good luck,
Warren
If the humming noise is due to an out-of-balance drive line, I’m puzzled as to why the noise doesn’t occur when the RV is coasting at 65-70. It only occurs when I have the accelerator pedal pushed. .
Different forces are in play when under power and when coasting, there is more energy in the system when accelerating or cruising under power, compared to coasting.
An alternative possible cause are the ring and pinion gears. Noisy rear axle have different sounds under power and coasting due to different sides of the gears being in contact with each other.
A “howl or whine” during acceleration over a small or large speed range can be caused by worn ring and pinion gears or improper gear set up. On the plus side, noisy axles sometimes will run for a hundred thousand miles or more, if the set up is off and the bearings are good.
Setting up axle gears is an art as much a science, it is one of the more difficult mechanical skills to learn, many auto mechanics have not learned this skill or have the patience to do it
Since the rig is so new, I would guess whatever it is, it had been present since the rig was built .
You had Ford check it once, so there is a paper trail if something pops, Ford can't say you didn't let them know and try to fix it.
Being a mechanic all my life, I'm compulsive about tracking down abnormal sounds in equipment.
Having a permanent noise like that would likely give me a mental condition if I couldn't find it.
The one thing i try to avoid at all costs is a breakdown far away from home, when the RV is your home on the road,
Much easier to work on or have work done when you are at home and not 1200 miles away.
Hope you figure this out quickly.
Larry
Recently, I noticed two strange noises while driving our 2017 MB. The first is a humming noise that starts exactly between 65-70 MPH. I do not feel any vibration - just this humming/groaning noise. The other noise is a creaking noise like a bad bedspring coming from the suspension - shock, leaf springs?
So here's an update on the creaking noise that appears to be coming from the shock or leaf springs. It was getting worse as we travelled from Michigan to St George Island State Park, Florida. Because of tropical storm Nestor, the state park was evacuated and we had to leave. As I was leaving the Island, "creaky bones" was still creaking. Then the rains from the storm started and the creaking stopped! We drove all the way from St George Island to Gulf Shore State Park Alabama (275 miles) with no creaking. We've driven around locally and still no creaking. I'm wondering if somehow the rainwater cleaned or lubricated something in the suspension? Weird.
Regarding the humming/groaning noise between 65-70 MPH. I've been driving under 65 during our trip. We will be spending a few days in Austin Texas with family and I'm going to take the LD to a truck repair place (Inland Truck & Service). I spoke to the service manager and explained the issue.
Also, during the trip, I've encountered a third noise. It's a ticking noise coming from the engine. It mostly occurs when I'm going up a steep hill. I "googled" the symptoms and found a guy on Youtube who had the same thing on his RV. He recorded the noise and it's exactly the same sound. He took his RV to the place he bought it (Thor) and to a Ford repair center. No one could determine the cause and deemed it was not serious only a nuisance. Weird. I will mention this new noise when I'm in Austin.
Then the rains from the storm started and the creaking stopped! We drove all the way from St George Island to Gulf Shore State Park Alabama (275 miles) with no creaking. We've driven around locally and still no creaking. I'm wondering if somehow the rainwater cleaned or lubricated something in the suspension? Weird.
The water was what stopped the noise, temporarily.
Growing up, I noticed that my parent's car were quieter after washing. My dad told me that the rubber suspension bushings and the leaf springs were wet and that helped them move smoothly, until they dried.
In decades past, a long, gone liquid bushing lubricant was available to spray on noisy bushings and springs.
I'm interested in what is found to be causing the humming and now ticking, it's so hard to guess what causes a noise when not actually hearing it.
Larry
Could the ticking noise possibly be an exhaust manifold leak?
Jon
Could the ticking noise possibly be an exhaust manifold leak?
That was my thought as well.
The creaking, especially if rear, could be dry rear sway bar bushings. We have that on occasion with our Sprinter-based RV. A little lube and all is good.
My guess for the "ticking noise" that is mostly when climbing "steep hills" is that the engine is pinging. My experience with pinging (or knocking) was that it was usually caused by using too low octane fuel though there are some other possible causes.
Regarding those new hearing aids you got in May, they seem to be opening several cans of worms. I like to say that I have spent too much money on blood pressure medications; I don't need more aggravation. I would only use those hearing aids when I'm not driving the Lazy Daze. :D
Steve K.
My guess for the "ticking noise" that is mostly when climbing "steep hills" is that the engine is pinging. My experience with pinging (or knocking) was that it was usually caused by using too low octane fuel.
Steve K.
I did one fill up with higher octane gas and added a bottle of gas additive. The ticking has now become more frequent but random. I’ll see what happens when I take the RV to a repair place.
Could the ticking noise possibly be an exhaust manifold leak?
Jon
I did find a Youtube video of the sound of an exhaust manifold leak, but the noise isn’t the same. If you interested, here is a link to a Youtube video that has the same ticking sound I have: https://youtu.be/fSmXgaxR3AA
It’s a Thor Class A he’s driving. But after taking it to Thor and a Ford repair place, the cause could not be found.
I did find a Youtube video of the sound of an exhaust manifold leak, but the noise isn’t the same. If you interested, here is a link to a Youtube video that has the same ticking sound I have: https://youtu.be/fSmXgaxR3AA
It’s a Thor Class A he’s driving. But after taking it to Thor and a Ford repair place, the cause could not be found.
I forgot to add that the ticking noise really starts about 40 seconds into the video.
I forgot to add that the ticking noise really starts about 40 seconds into the video.
I hear a lot of road noise and something rattling, perhaps the exhaust shields on the exhaust located directly under the driver's seat.
Larry
Leaf spring creak sounds like an issue I once had. There's plastic rectangular plastic pads that fit in between a couple of these leafs that sometimes wear out. Pretty cheap and easy fix. Just jack up truck by the frame so the rear wheels hang which opens up the leaf spring. Fairly simple to remove old part and slip new one into place. Odd thing is mine did this when the truck was new with only 20 k on it and I thought great, I'll be doing this constantly. Put well over 250k more miles on it and never had the problem again. Beats me as to how that worked.
Hope this helps with at least one of your annoying noises
I can certainly relate to your random noise concern. When we started traveling in our older LD I brought with me my "car mechanics's ear" on what was supposed to be a relaxing trip. Every new mystery noise brought visions of impending doom. After checking all the basic safety concerns I came to the conclusion that my motor home is a big rattly storage building being carried around on the back of a 3 ton truck. Those big tires sing, those wheel simulators rattle, that catalytic converter shield vibrates at idle in drive, and everything in the fridge clunks and moves. I am still alert to really obvious engine noises under the dog house, brake odors etc. and I know sooner or later I will break down somewhere for sure. In the mean time I'm thinking of hanging a picture of Alfred E. Neuman on my rear view mirror.
Well here is sort of an update to the leaf spring noise and the humming/groaning noise between 65-70 mph. Like I mentioned earlier, the leaf spring noise just suddenly stopped as we were evacuating St George Island FL during tropical storm Nestor 3 weeks ago. It has not come back as we travelled through Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. A mystery.
Regarding the humming/groaning noise, I just kept the speed at 65 mph. Every once in a while I would accelerate to 70 just to check it. I was going to take the RV to a truck repair place in Austin, TX but I came down with a sinus infection and then had to move on. Now the humming noise seems to have disappeared.
When we return to Michigan in December, I will leave the RV at my usual Ford truck repair place.
.... Now the humming noise seems to have disappeared.
Or is it time to replace the hearing aid batteries ?
:D :D ;)
Safe travels, please update if the Ford repair center finds anything.
My 2018 Phoenix Cruiser on a E-350 chassis has the same hum with some vibration starting at 65 mph. I never cruise over 60 mph. When I first noticed it I thought maybe it was a tire out of balance, I had over 36,000 miles on so I figure my warranty has expired. I had totally forgot about it until I read this forum. Today I was on the interstate which is rare, I ran at 65 mph and the hum was pretty bad. My odometer is at 60,400 miles. I called Ford customer service today and was basically told, you're over 60,000 so you're out of warranty. The engine and drivetrain is 5 yr 60,000. Any advice?
Anyone find out what the hum at 65 mph is?
Anyone find out what the hum at 65 mph is?
I'm the original owner of this message thread. Here's the update. The Ford truck service place I use had diagnosed the hum as coming from somewhere in the rear axle area. This was back in September just before we were going on a whirlwind wandering. They were really swamped at the time and could not proceed with a resolution. Their opinion was that since the hum had been occurring for a while, I would probably be OK and to come back after the trip. After traveling 7,100 miles and rarely going over 65mph, I returned the RV to the Ford truck service place for an oil change, resume looking for the cause of the hum, and to look into a random ticking sound coming form the engine that had started at the beginning of the trip. This was on December 9. Last week, they determined the hum was coming form the rear axle and ordered a rear axle assembly kit which will be installed under warranty. They said it would take a few weeks before the kit would arrive. The problem is that we are going out on another whirlwind tour next week. So, I will be going back to the service place when we return mid-March.
Thanks for the update.
I'm the original owner of this message thread. Here's the update. The Ford truck service place I use had diagnosed the hum as coming from somewhere in the rear axle area. This was back in September just before we were going on a whirlwind wandering. They were really swamped at the time and could not proceed with a resolution. Their opinion was that since the hum had been occurring for a while, I would probably be OK and to come back after the trip. After traveling 7,100 miles and rarely going over 65mph, I returned the RV to the Ford truck service place for an oil change, resume looking for the cause of the hum, and to look into a random ticking sound coming form the engine that had started at the beginning of the trip. This was on December 9. Last week, they determined the hum was coming form the rear axle and ordered a rear axle assembly kit which will be installed under warranty. They said it would take a few weeks before the kit would arrive. The problem is that we are going out on another whirlwind tour next week. So, I will be going back to the service place when we return mid-March.
Did the kit for the rear axle solve your humming sound at 65 to 70 mph?
Lynn
The OP's timeline indicated that he would return to the service facility in mid-March, so it's unlikely that the 'kit' has been installed yet.
If the OP's LD is still running, it's likely the hum at 65-70 MPH is from a poorly set up ring and pinion gears, in the rear axle.
Noisy gears can go for ten of thousand miles in some cases since, while noisy, the gears will work OK .
The cure is to replace the ring and pinion and reset them correctly, it's almost an art, something most auto mechanics never learn to do well because a certain ammount of the work involves judgement rather than measurements, when looking at the gear patterns..
A rebuilt replacement or installing new gears and bearing at a qualified axle shop is the cure.
We had a rear axle pinion bearing go bad, requiring a rebuild, it was the most difficult job I have done on our LD.
Rebuilt axle start at around $2000 plus labor to removed and replace the old axle.
Axle rebuild-D70 HD | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157681746622164/)
Larry
I am the OP. We are still on our wanderings in Florida and will not return home until the first week in April. Then I will have to work with the Ford Truck Center to schedule the install of the rear axle kit (whatever that is) that they ordered back in December.
Thanks Glen.
Lynn
I am the OP. We are still on our wanderings in Florida and will not return home until the first week in April. Then I will have to work with the Ford Truck Center to schedule the install of the rear axle kit (whatever that is) that they ordered back in December.
I would imagine it's a whole axle assembly. I wouldn't accept anything less and certainly not a in-shop replacement of the gears unless it is done at a shop specializing in axle rebuilds.
Axle rebuilding is a definite sub-speciality of auto repair, similar to transmissions in that it take specialized equipment and experience to do it right and fast.
Larry
I run 55 to 60 mph, everything runs smooth at those speeds, I have 69,000 miles on my 2017 chassis, no warranty, Could I just keep driving it as is and repair later at 100,000 miles or is that foolish?
Lynn
I run 55 to 60 mph, everything runs smooth at those speeds, I have 69,000 miles on my 2017 chassis, no warranty, Could I just keep driving it as is and repair later at 100,000 miles or is that foolish?
Toss the dice and see what happens.
Without an inspection by a competent mechanic, that question cannot be answered.
You may be hearing noises from another source.
Larry
I'm having it looked at at the end of the month. I get some vibration making me think the driveshaft may be out of balance.
I had so many problems with my motorhome it took a year and a half to get everything fixed. I put on 35,000 plus miles a yr. Because I drive under 65 mph I totally forgot about the hum until I saw Glens post on this forum, by then I was over the 60,000 mile warranty. I called Ford when my odometer read 60,300 and basically was told to bad. I never really thought it could be the rear end. I had a 1991 Ford E350 that had the rear axle fail at 90,000. I should of took it in right away, stupidity is my defense.
Lynn
I'm the original owner of this message thread. Here's the update. The Ford truck service place I use had diagnosed the hum as coming from somewhere in the rear axle area. This was back in September just before we were going on a whirlwind wandering. They were really swamped at the time and could not proceed with a resolution. Their opinion was that since the hum had been occurring for a while, I would probably be OK and to come back after the trip. After traveling 7,100 miles and rarely going over 65mph, I returned the RV to the Ford truck service place for an oil change, resume looking for the cause of the hum, and to look into a random ticking sound coming form the engine that had started at the beginning of the trip. This was on December 9. Last week, they determined the hum was coming form the rear axle and ordered a rear axle assembly kit which will be installed under warranty. They said it would take a few weeks before the kit would arrive. The problem is that we are going out on another whirlwind tour next week. So, I will be going back to the service place when we return mid-March.
This was 2 month ago for Glenn. Any late March update ??
I have a similar situation. The loud humming noise from the rear differential at 65-70 mph.
Local Ford dealer diagnosed the following problem ... It has a bad pinion bearing. Mechanic said if it were his truck, he would drive it until it got worse ... OR ... repair before the 5 year/ 60,000 warranty expired.
Currently at just under 3 years / 15,000, so I will have mine fixed when it is convenient for me. This local Ford dealer did not have lift clearance to work on a motor home. The ones they recommended are a PITA to travel to.
I was also told that the job would take a few days because they cannot determine which bearing to replace until they open the rear differential and inspect.
Just though I would share ...
This was 2 month ago for Glenn. Any late March update ??
I have a similar situation. The loud humming noise from the rear differential at 65-70 mph.
Local Ford dealer diagnosed the following problem ... It has a bad pinion bearing. Mechanic said if it were his truck, he would drive it until it got worse ... OR ... repair before the 5 year/ 60,000 warranty expired.
Currently at just under 3 years / 15,000, so I will have mine fixed when it is convenient for me. This local Ford dealer did not have lift clearance to work on a motor home. The ones they recommended are a PITA to travel to.
I was also told that the job would take a few days because they cannot determine which bearing to replace until they open the rear differential and inspect.
Just though I would share ...
To CactusCrew,
I was planning on having the repair done when we returned from our Florida wandering trip last week. But now with the virus crisis, I will have to wait.
It is just too coincidental that Lynn (Rabbitdiesel1), CactusCrew, and Glen Lambert all have rear end noise with 2017 MidBaths. I don't recall anyone else having problems with their differentials at this early stage of mileage. OK, Larry Wade, at high load and higher mileage. Still, what dates were these rigs finished at the mothership, and could they all have been made with a bad batch of parts from Ford? Does Ford corporate know about this, and I would think that other E450 chassis besides Lazy Dazes would have similar issues. RonB
To CactusCrew,
I was planning on having the repair done when we returned from our Florida wandering trip last week. But now with the virus crisis, I will have to wait.
And then again, maybe not. Reported in the news last night that transportation was considered 'essential' so area garages are open. They are seeing a great lack of customers so you might have a better change of finding a place that otherwise.
Just a thought.
Joel
It is just too coincidental that Lynn (Rabbitdiesel1), CactusCrew, and Glen Lambert all have rear end noise with 2017 MidBaths. I don't recall anyone else having problems with their differentials at this early stage of mileage. OK, Larry Wade, at high load and higher mileage. Still, what dates were these rigs finished at the mothership, and could they all have been made with a bad batch of parts from Ford? Does Ford corporate know about this, and I would think that other E450 chassis besides Lazy Dazes would have similar issues. RonB
I'm sure Ford would know, not that they would do anything about it. It's quite possible they got a bad batch of differential parts, as we did. It happens regularly in the automotive world, sometimes resulting in recalls.
Our 2003's axle didn't wear out, in fact the bearing and gears were all in great condition except for the pinion bearing's shaft being undersize, The undersize shaft allowed the pinion bearing's inner race to break loose and spin on the pinion gear shaft when it is supposed to be a very tight press fit.
Google Image Result for https://www.awdwiki.com/images/differential.jpg (https://images.app.goo.gl/zVBzhCGzee2Rho719)
Examining the condition of the original gears and bearings and finding them in great condition, at 100,000 miles, our LD's axle should have lasted the life of the vehicle if the pinion gear shaft had not been defective.
Repairing it was a big project, one I would not attempt again without a lif and a strong helper.
If mine and the rig were out of warranty, Ford would be the last place I would take it for a rebuild, instead, I would find a truck driveline shop that specializes in axle repairs. Rebuilding differential is as much an art as a science since it requires judgement calls of acceptable gear patterns, experience counts for a lot .
Larry
Larry,
My dad used to rebuild his own differentials and manual transmissions. He would look at the wear marks on the gear faces and use a dial indicator and shim the differential so he had the least lash, but no whine. His differentials were really nice and quiet when he was finished and he never had to rebuild one twice. Differential repair was more art than science.
It was a different day when a guy could grind his own valves, swap engines in the garage, hone cylinders and re-ring pistons, etc. Times have changed. Dad realized this when he tried to overhaul an automatic transmission on the bench in the shop, and another time when he disassembled a Bosch fuel injection pump from a Mercedes. Both had to be completed by a pro.
The first time I had to pay a mechanic to do a job, Dad looked at me quietly like I had failed as a son...
Harold
My dad used to rebuild his own differentials and manual transmissions. He would look at the wear marks on the gear faces and use a dial indicator and shim the differential so he had the least lash, but no whine. His differentials were really nice and quiet when he was finished and he never had to rebuild one twice. Differential repair was more art than science.
It was a different day when a guy could grind his own valves, swap engines in the garage, hone cylinders and re-ring pistons, etc. Times have changed. Dad realized this when he tried to overhaul an automatic transmission on the bench in the shop, and another time when he disassembled a Bosch fuel injection pump from a Mercedes. Both had to be completed by a pro.
Axles take a lot of time to set up and usually need to disassemble many times until a 'good' pattern is produced, it took several days and about 15 tries before getting the LD's axle pattern and backlash correct. It also takes shop equipment most home mechanics do not own .
Final pattern | After trying many shim adjustments, the fina… | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/34532473334/in/album-72157681746622164/)
When starting building Jeep axles, about 15 years ago, I started accumulating the specialized tools needed. The LD's axle was much larger and a couple of additional tools were needed.
Tools | Specialized tools used to rebuild differential. | lw5315us | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/35231902422/in/album-72157681746622164/)
As for automatic transmissions, your father figured it out quickly that it is something that should be left to a shop properly equipped and a expect who knows how to reassemble the hundreds of small parts in the right order. My couple of attempts to rebuild an automatic, while in college, were spectacular failures.
Larry
I vividly remember working with Dad and removing the cover and the valve body. We immediately knew we were in over our heads.
He charged into the fuel injection pump by himself. Actually, Bosch mechanical fuel injection pumps are built by elves and magicians, not mortal mechanics.
I took my e-350 to ford last week and had the rear differential oil changed, they said it looked good with no shavings or debris. They said I had a broken exhaust pipe bracket which they replaced. The mechanic drove it and said he could not hear any noise. I drove it home and the road is so rough I couldn't really tell but believe the hum is still there. I have 70,000 miles and I'm out of warranty. I don't know weather to just keep driving it or look for a drive train shop, don't know if there's one in my area and really don't know what to look under to find one. You Lazy Daze owners have been kind, I live in Iowa, your advise is welcome. I don't like the idea of spending 2000$ plus but feel it needs to be repaired.
A friend of LD owners
I took my e-350 to ford last week and had the rear differential oil changed, they said it looked good with no shavings or debris. They said I had a broken exhaust pipe bracket which they replaced. The mechanic drove it and said he could not hear any noise. I drove it home and the road is so rough I couldn't really tell but believe the hum is still there. I have 70,000 miles and I'm out of warranty. I don't know whether to just keep driving it or look for a drive train shop,
Rear-axle hums do not necessarily mean the axle is defective or going to fail.
Assuming the mechanic actually inspected the gears and found nothing indicating that either the gears or bearing were self-destructing, it's very possible that the gears were never set up right for quiet operation. in the first place.
The ring and pinion gears are a matched set, being machined to mate with each other perfectly in one position, a slight bit off may produce noise or humming but may not impact the long term durability of the axle.
As long as the noise stay at a consistent level and is not getting louder, I would drive it and keep my eyes open for a truck axle and/or driveline shop along the way.
A couple of my past used vehicles came with noisy axles that lasted over 100,000 miles and were never replaced, back before I learned how to build them.
Larry
Thanks Larry, you make good sense. At 55 to 60 mph it's as smooth as silk. Over 65 it hums plus some vibration.
At 55 to 60 mph it's as smooth as silk. Over 65 it hums plus some vibration.
Vibrations are not a common symptom of a bad axle, more likely from a damaged or misaligned u-joint, a bad driveshaft carrier bearing or some other source, such as an out of balance wheel assembly.
Larry
It is just too coincidental that Lynn (Rabbitdiesel1), CactusCrew, and Glen Lambert all have rear end noise with 2017 MidBaths. I don't recall anyone else having problems with their differentials at this early stage of mileage. OK, Larry Wade, at high load and higher mileage. Still, what dates were these rigs finished at the mothership, and could they all have been made with a bad batch of parts from Ford? Does Ford corporate know about this, and I would think that other E450 chassis besides Lazy Dazes would have similar issues. RonB
FORD info:
build date ... 5 Aug 2016
release date ... 8 Aug 2016
Warranty start date:
13 April 2017 ... ( approx Lazy Daze build Sept 2016 - April 2017 )
I am glad it occurs at a speed that I hardly use. I will have it repaired when convenient for me, and before the warranty expires.
If Ford knows about it, they usually do not share that info until required by law. Lazy Daze is probably such a small sample of the number of E450s produced that it would be a blip in manufacturing.
Build date on my E-350 is Sept. 2017.
FORD info:
build date ... 5 Aug 2016
release date ... 8 Aug 2016
Warranty start date:
13 April 2017 ... ( approx Lazy Daze build Sept 2016 - April 2017 )
I am glad it occurs at a speed that I hardly use. I will have it repaired when convenient for me, and before the warranty expires.
If Ford knows about it, they usually do not share that info until required by law. Lazy Daze is probably such a small sample of the number of E450s produced that it would be a blip in manufacturing.
My 2017 MB was manufactured in Jan 2017, Lazy Daze completed it in Sep 2017, and I picked it up Oct 2017. I don't know if I mentioned it before, I began noticing the hum when I got hearing aids in May of last year. That hum may have been occurring since the first day. I currently have 31,000 miles.
No hum in our 2017 mid bath. We picked it up the end of March 2017. It did have click - click noise. Our mechanic replaced the timing pulleys and belt. This took care of the noise. I saved the replaced belt for later emergencies as it was in good condition.
Glen, did you ever get the rear axle noise fixed on your Ford?
It can be difficult to find an online source of TSBs for any vehicle; this site lists (recalls) and TSBs and "complaints". This link is specific to TSBs for the 2017 Ford E-450:
2017 Ford E-450 TSBs | CarComplaints.com (https://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/E-450/2017/tsbs/)
Glen, did you ever get the rear axle noise fixed on your Ford?
@rabbitdiesel1 - It's at the repair shop now for some body work, oil change, and to look at the rear axle noise. I will update this thread when it's all done.
Thanks, Glenn.
Our rear axle hums with 150k on the ticker...in my experience a humming Dana 70 or 80 isn’t something I plan to lose sleep over.
Our rear axle hums with 150k on the ticker...in my experience a humming Dana 70 or 80 isn’t something I plan to lose sleep over.
What is "a humming Dana 70 or 80"?
Chris
Dana Spicer rear axle differential; I believe that the E-450's differential is a 70?
Dana Spicer rear axle differential; I believe that the E-450's differential is a 70?
There are multiple axles used in the E450.
To distinguish between them, find the sheet metal tag, bolted on with the rear of the differential cover's bolts, it has the needed information to determine what axle it is. Some axles will have a printed tag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90o5QtER-FI
The other way to determine the axle is to check your LD's Factory identification plate usually located on the driver's door frame.
Identify Your Ford Truck Axle From The Door Sticker – Blue Oval Trucks (https://www.blueovaltrucks.com/tech-articles/identify-your-ford-truck-axle-from-the-door-sticker/)
The E450 list includes; Dana 60
Dana 70
Dana 70 Super
Dana 70 HD
Ford 10.5"
D-80
The Dana 60 is a lighter axle with a 9.75" ring gear, it may be more common in older LDs, I have never noticed one before
The Dana 70's and Ford 10.5" are all mostly the same, with 10.5" ring gears.
The Dana 80 is a slightly stronger axle with an 11-1/4" ring gear.
In axles, larger ring gears are usually stronger than smaller ring gears.
Replacing the gears is a fun-filled project.
Axle rebuild-D70 HD | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157681746622164/)
Larry
Thanks for that! I checked the door sticker on my 2003 (May 2003 chassis manufacture); the axle is listed as "83". Please tell me that that's enough "axle identifier" information so I don't have to crawl under the rig! ;)
Thanks for that! I checked the door sticker on my 2003 (May 2003 chassis manufacture); the axle is listed as "83". Please tell me that that's enough "axle identifier" information so I don't have to crawl under the rig! ;)
Well, I thought the door sticker identifies the type of axle but, checking the Factory Service Manual, it seems that all it does is show the axle ratio and brand, but no specifics on the model. So, to verify, the tag on the axle is where the model is identified.
BTW, our 2003 E450 also shows an 83 for the axle type, it's a Dana 70 HD.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49913896226_de27189470_w.jpg)
More axle identification.
Differential Identification | West Coast Differentials (https://www.differentials.com/technical-help-2/differential-identification/)
Larry
"...our 2003 E450 also shows an 83 for the axle type, it's a Dana 70 HD."
----
OK! Thank you, Larry, for that clarification and site link; saved to my link stash! I thought that the axles on our 2003s were the same, but I'm happy not to have to crawl under to find out! ;)
Well, I thought the door sticker identifies the type of axle but, checking the Factory Service Manual, it seems that all it does is show the axle ratio and brand, but no specifics on the model. So, to verify, the tag on the axle is where the model is identified.
BTW, our 2003 E450 also shows an 83 for the axle type, it's a Dana 70 HD.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49913896226_de27189470_w.jpg)
More axle identification.
Differential Identification | West Coast Differentials (https://www.differentials.com/technical-help-2/differential-identification/)
Larry
Larry,
Where'd you end up getting your factory service manual? I've been meaning to get one for awhile now. Does Ford have them even for their cutaways?
@rabbitdiesel1 - It's at the repair shop now for some body work, oil change, and to look at the rear axle noise. I will update this thread when it's all done.
Today, I picked up my MB from the repair place. The technician felt and heard the noise/vibration. He removed the drive shaft and inspected the U-Joints. He could find no problem with either. He thinks the problem could be an unbalanced drive shaft. He said that 75% of the motor homes he's worked on have some sort of vibration at various speeds - caused by too much weight on the leaf springs. He pointed out another Class C in his parking lot with the same issue. "Whitelk"," Joan", and "L Wade" had made previous comments in this thread regarding out of balanced drive shafts. The technician suggested that I take my RV to a drive shaft repair place that can remove it, spin it, and measure. Now for a search for such a place in my area.
I suspected the driveshaft but wasn't 100 percent sure. That shouldn't be real expensive to balance. A truck repair shop should know where to get it balanced. Thanks Glenn.
Lynn
The technician suggested that I take my RV to a drive shaft repair place that can remove it, spin it, and measure. Now for a search for such a place in my area.
A nearby driveshaft machine shop that has the space to park your LD, and a mechanic to drop and replace the driveshaft, would be best.
The shops I have used over the years have not had this service, they build and repair driveshafts. Usually, auto shops and individuals bring them defective driveshafts for service. I would check with your local Napa Auto Parts and see if they have a driveshaft shop they work with. Also, check for local truck drive-line shops.
Dropping the two-piece driveshaft takes ten minutes or less, with air tools, Is your tech capable of doing that?
You live near Detroit, there should be a driveshaft shop or two in the vicinity.
Larry
I live in rural Iowa and have been looking for a drive line shop. Last night the name of a truck shop popped up on my screen, it was 12 miles from my home, they do heavy trucks, semi's and smaller. I called this morning, he said yep, we'll take your drive shaft off, check all the bearings, then send it to a shop that will balance it, they'll send it back the next day, did 5 of them last week, bring it in first thing Monday morning and we'll take a look at it. It's not what you know, it's who you know. I've driven past this shop hundreds of times, never gave it a thought as to what they repaired.
Lynn
Last night the name of a truck shop popped up on my screen, it was 12 miles from my home
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear
Today, I picked up my MB from the repair place. The technician felt and heard the noise/vibration. He removed the drive shaft and inspected the U-Joints. He could find no problem with either. He thinks the problem could be an unbalanced drive shaft. He said that 75% of the motor homes he's worked on have some sort of vibration at various speeds - caused by too much weight on the leaf springs. He pointed out another Class C in his parking lot with the same issue. "Whitelk"," Joan", and "L Wade" had made previous comments in this thread regarding out of balanced drive shafts. The technician suggested that I take my RV to a drive shaft repair place that can remove it, spin it, and measure. Now for a search for such a place in my area.
Ironically, I got mine back from Ruxor Ford this week too. Previous Ford dealer that diagnosed the problem sent me to them, since they didn't have lift clearance.
They reluctantly replaced the ring and pinion under warranty. It might have made a slight difference, NOT.
Let me know if the drive shaft balancing makes a difference. My simple brain says it will not do anything either. Wouldn't driveshaft balance problems be related to RPMs ? not MPHs ?
I honestly didn't think Ford dealers could fix the problem, until it breaks. :o
Just a step in the process
Hi CactusCrew; Rpm of the engine is changed at the wheel by the transmission. If the sound was dependent on speed, that's wheel rotation speed. Directly related to output shaft rear bearing of transmission, U joints, drive shafts before and after the center bearing, differential, rear axles and rear wheel bearings. To save weight the drive shafts are relatively thin wall tubes. A heavy vehicle combined with a powerful V10 engine has been known to twist up shafts. Diesels with more torque would more likely do that. Or they might get stronger shafts. RonB
Ironically, I got mine back from Ruxor Ford this week too. Previous Ford dealer that diagnosed the problem sent me to them, since they didn't have lift clearance.
They reluctantly replaced the ring and pinion under warranty. It might have made a slight difference, NOT.
Let me know if the drive shaft balancing makes a difference. My simple brain says it will not do anything either. Wouldn't driveshaft balance problems be related to RPMs ? not MPHs ?
I honestly didn't think Ford dealers could fix the problem, until it breaks. :o
Taking mine in today, I'll let you know towards the end of the week if the driveshaft is the problem.
Lynn
Just a step in the process
did 5 of them last week
Lynn
That sounds odd.
They reluctantly replaced the ring and pinion under warranty. It might have made a slight difference, NOT.
Let me know if the drive shaft balancing makes a difference. My simple brain says it will not do anything either. Wouldn't driveshaft balance problems be related to RPMs ? not MPHs ?
I honestly didn't think Ford dealers could fix the problem, until it breaks. :o
Driveshaft balance problems are not uncommon in larger vehicles or modified vehicles. Our LDs have deep gears, meaning the driveshaft turns at very high speeds at highway speeds a slight inbalance will show itself at high speeds. The higher the road speed, the faster the driveshaft spins. My 2001 Jeep has deep, 4.56 gears and had driveshaft vibrations that needed attention to the u-joint angles to cure.
I would have had the driveshaft checked before replacing the gears.
Changing the ring and pinion is a very expensive job that really should be left to a shop that does nothing but axels, its a sub-specialty, similar to automatic transmissions. I doubt many Ford dealers have mechanics with extensive axle experience.
Setting the gears is somewhat subjective, the experience of the builder is everything when it comes to quiet operation. A slight misadjustment can lead to noises that have no effect on longevity.
Your LD's noise might last the life of the vehicle before anything breaks.
Larry
Its going to last the life of this Ford, because I don't have the time & patience to repeat this process at numerous specialty shops.
Thanks for the review of driveshafts, ring & pinion, transmissions, etc ... I posted late last night after a long day at work, even I don't understand what I was saying with the mph vs rpm comment ... my mistake.
As for the shop that I went to, it wasn't just the average Ford dealer. My Lazy Daze was probably the smallest vehicle in for service. It was a heavy truck center and I had to schedule and wait for the specialist availability.
Sure, some place probably does it better, has more knowledge, etc ... but at this point, I'd rather live with the noise then continue the troubleshooting process. The LD has more miles between service centers this year, than travelling on vacation !! That's going to change soon ;D
The technician suggested that I take my RV to a drive shaft repair place that can remove it, spin it, and measure. Now for a search for such a place in my area.
Found a place and dropped it off. I'll update when I get it back.
Found a place and dropped it off. I'll update when I get it back.
Regarding the driveshaft humming noise. This is the repair place's determination:
Inspected driveshaft, no issues found. Test drove with Ids, saw and felt shake due to misfire on cylinder 2, 6 and 8. Recommend tune up, spark plugs and coils.
I'm not sure what to do about this. The RV is not yet three years old and has 31,000 miles and it needs a tune up, coils, and spark plugs????? I called the Ford Fleet Warranty department to see if this is covered under warranty. The department is closed due to COVID-19. Any suggestions?
I don't know if any of the TSBs for a 2017 Ford E-450 apply to your situation, but you might want to look through this list:
2017 Ford E-450 TSBs | CarComplaints.com (https://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/E-450/2017/tsbs/)
I agree that a three-year-old rig with 31k should NOT need new plugs and coils, but it's certainly possible that the plugs (and/or) coils were defective, or the plugs were not seated and/or torqued properly during manufacture. Larry may respond and offer advice; he is very familiar with the various parts and systems that can (and often do) go south on our rigs.
Glenn, if it were my truck, I would talk to your servicing Ford dealer. I think you had the rear axle work done there and they then suggested getting the drive shaft balance. Relay what the drive shaft place said or take in the written assessment.
It should be an easy thing for Ford to diagnose and should be covered under either the powertrain or emission control warranty. Just my opinion though.
Steve K.
Inspected driveshaft, no issues found. Test drove with Ids, saw and felt shake due to misfire on cylinder 2, 6 and 8. Recommend tune up, spark plugs and coils.
I'm not sure what to do about this. The RV is not yet three years old and has 31,000 miles and it needs a tune up, coils, and spark plugs????? Any suggestions?
Inspected driveshaft, no issues found. Test drove with Ids, saw and felt shake due to misfire on cylinder 2, 6 and 8. Recommend tune up, spark plugs and coils.
How was it determined that cylinders 2, 6 and 8 are misfiring? If so, the LD's computer should turn the 'Check Engine' light on.
If so, what are the codes, if you know. They should be, if 2, 6 and 8 are misfiring, P0302, P0306 and P0308.
Determining cylinder misfire and what cylinders are missing, by the seat of your pants, isn't possible. It may not be plugs and coils after all.
It seems improbable that three spark plugs and three separate coils would go bad at once on a low mileage engine.
I suspect something else is failing or is out of adjustment that causes the symptoms.
You need a shop that can put the engine on the scope and scanner and look at the spark patterns, also checking all the various engine sensors, making sure the camshaft sensor is synchronized, something that has caused random misfire for me when working on other vehicles.
BTW, today most cars do not have formal tune-ups, everything is controlled by the computer. Once set at the Factory, there are no adjustments, only replacements.
This is unusual, we see few poorly running V10s here. Sorry your rig is having so many problems.
If your LD is still under warranty, even if the warranty center is closed, I would take it to a Ford dealer and establish a claim, before the warranty ends.
Keep us posted.
Larry
I just got my 2017 back from the shop. They balanced the drive shaft, it wasn't out much, it still made the hum at 65 mph and over, balancing helped a little. They then put an additive in the rear differential, that pretty much eliminated the hum, I can still here it a little but no much. They said the more you drive it the better it should get, hopefully. At 70 mph I get some vibration up front, I think that's my tires. Total bill was 282.62 $. When I put more miles on I'll let you know how it runs. Here"s the additive they put in. Trans X Posi-Trac Additive. I hope this helps.
Lynn
"They then put an additive in the rear differential."
That's not a new trick! I used an additive in the Detroit Locker differential of my '77 IH Scout, per factory directions. :o
Thanks "Joan", "Steve K", and "Larry W". I had talked to the technician regarding the misfiring cylinders. He said that he drove the RV while it was connected to Ford's IDS (Integrated Diagnostic System) program. It showed the codes P0302, P0306 and P0308 (and he felt the vibration). He was surprised that the Check Light didn't come on. But expects it will sometime in the future. I told him that if I need the spark plugs replaced so early in the life of the RV, I would prefer to take it to a Ford service center in order to maybe get them replaced under warranty. He said that is a good idea. I will be taking the RV there Monday morning. I don't know if I should explain the whole history of this issue to them and the various diagnoses or just start with the initial symptom: There's a humming sound and vibration between 65-70 mph and let them figure it out.
"Steve K" - The previous Ford service center I used (their solution was to replace the rear axle assembly) has decided to no longer service RVs - even after they ordered the assembly. So it was never installed. And none of the other non-Ford service places agree with the rear axle assembly solution. This new Ford service center I found is 40 minutes away. The other one was a lot closer.
"Steve K" - The previous Ford service center I used (their solution was to replace the rear axle assembly) has decided to no longer service RVs - even after they ordered the assembly. So it was never installed. And none of the other non-Ford service places agree with the rear axle assembly solution. This new Ford service center I found is 40 minutes away. The other one was a lot closer.
Sounds familiar ... Ford Service Centers ! The one that is 15 miles away, said they could work on it. After diagnosing the rear noise problem, "sorry, we can't fit it on our lift in the shop, here's two we recommend. First one is 20 miles, a heavy truck center, "sorry, no motor homes, maybe take it to a RV dealer". The one that ultimately replaced the ring and pinion was about 60 miles away. Total hassle doing anything but routine maintenance on these chassis around here.
Sounds familiar ... Ford Service Centers ! The one that is 15 miles away, said they could work on it. After diagnosing the rear noise problem, "sorry, we can't fit it on our lift in the shop, here's two we recommend. First one is 20 miles, a heavy truck center, "sorry, no motor homes, maybe take it to a RV dealer". The one that ultimately replaced the ring and pinion was about 60 miles away. Total hassle doing anything but routine maintenance on these chassis around here.
Same here in the Denver metro area. The major Ford dealer, after I had gone there for years, ruled no motorhomes over x feet. The oil change place after many years said no motorhomes. Why? They scrape the driveway when they leave. Give me a break. Just found a Les Schwab, which is new to the metro and near my storage unit, which will take me. I know, I could do it myself, but...
Chris
. Here"s the additive they put in. Trans X Posi-Trac Additive. I hope this helps.
Trans X Posi-Trac Additive is a friction modifier that is only used in limited-slip axles, something none of our LDs have.
The additive prevents the limited-slip's clutch plates from chattering and making noise. While it will not hurt anything, it is not intended for use in your LD's open rear axle. This isn't a fix, and it will not get better with time, it's a temporary cover-up, I'm surprised the additive made any difference at all.
As I mentioned before, axle differentials can sometimes make humming noises their entire service lives without affecting durability. The differential gears are machined as matched sets, if the gears are set up a bit off, they will make noise forever but not affect the useful life span.
Larry
Interesting, I wondered.
Lynn
Ford put in the wrong rear end fluid. They put in 75w140, my owners manual says 75w90. Should I change it again?
What do you think?
Lynn
Ford put in the wrong rear end fluid. They put in 75w140, my owners manual says 75w90. Should I change it again?
What do you think?
Ford recommends SAE 75W-140 synthetic gear lube for E450s that tow. It can be safely run in rigs that do not tow.
Larry
Thanks Larry
Lynn
And now this.......
So I took my LD to a Ford service center about 30 miles away hoping that any repair to fix the humming/vibration noise would be covered under warranty. They determined that the cause was in the tail shaft at the rear of the transmission and it would be fixed under warranty. They are waiting for parts. While the technician was lowering the LD on the hoist, he hit the corner of the overhead cab area on something and scuffed it enough that it looks like the whole cab area will need to be replaced. See attached picture. Wonderful.
Ouch! :( You might want to take close-up photos of the damage and send them to Todd at the factory for an assessment of the best way to repair the damages. It's difficult to tell from the one photo, but it looks like the ABS "wrap" piece took the hit, and I believe that this can be replaced. However (JMHO), I wouldn't try any "repairs" without consulting LD.
(And, obviously, the shop is going to pay for their careless screw-up, right?)
Ouch! :( You might want to take close-up photos of the damage and send them to Todd at the factory for an assessment of the best way to repair the damages. It's difficult to tell from the one photo, but it looks like the ABS "wrap" piece took the hit, and I believe that this can be replaced. However (JMHO), I wouldn't try any "repairs" without consulting LD.
(And, obviously, the shop is going to pay for their careless screw-up, right?)
Yes, I will be contacting Todd and yes, the Ford service repair center will pay for any repair.
Glenn,
My experience with Mothership repairs has been nothing short of miraculous.
I had snagged our LD coach door on a trailer hitch at U-Haul after only a short time of ownership, Vince was able to completely remove any evidence of my novice ownership.
Vince also replaced a cracked end cap that had developed after returning home from Zion. You’d never know he’d had his hands on it or the cracked end cap ever existed.
Trust your Mothership. She will make all your boo-boo’s go away.
Kent
Glenn,
My experience with Mothership repairs has been nothing short of miraculous.
I had snagged our LD coach door on a trailer hitch at U-Haul after only a short time of ownership, Vince was able to completely remove any evidence of my novice ownership.
Vince also replaced a cracked end cap that had developed after returning home from Zion. You’d never know he’d had his hands on it or the cracked end cap ever existed.
Trust your Mothership. She will make all your boo-boo’s go away.
Kent
Kent,
I agree. The problem has always been that the Mothership is in California and I'm in Michigan.
And now this.......
he hit the corner of the overhead cab area on something and scuffed it enough that it looks like the whole cab area will need to be replaced. See attached picture. Wonderful.
Does the cap have damage beyond the costmetic? Are there rips or cracks?
If just cosmetic, and no structural damage is present, instead of driving cross country to have Mothership keep your LD for a couple of weeks, or more, consider finding a good, local automotive paInt shop.
LD should be able to provide brand name and color of the paint, even a new decal, if it needs painting.
Larry
Does the cap have damage beyond the costmetic? Are there rips or cracks?
If just cosmetic, and no structural damage is present, instead of driving cross country to have Mothership keep your LD for a couple of weeks, or more, consider finding a good, local automotive paInt shop.
LD should be able to provide brand name and color of the paint, even a new decal, if it needs painting.
Larry
I don't know the extent of the damage. All I have is the picture the Service Manager texted me. There's a body shop I used for two previous repairing/patching/painting "Boo Boo's". They did a great job. Michigan is opening their state park campgrounds this Monday. We had made a two-week reservation 6 months ago. I'll be picking up the LD tomorrow or Friday from the Ford center (hopefully). The body shop manager said to stop by and he'll write up an estimate (the Ford service place will pay for the repair) and he'll put a patch or something over the scruff to keep out any water during our trip. When I return, he'll do a complete repair.
So, here's the final ending to the humming/vibration noise I've been having between 65-70mph.
They removed and inspected the drive shaft for any possible worn or damaged parts. They found that the center bearing and all U-joints move freely with no evidence of binding or rough movement. With the drive shaft removed, they ran the engine to 65-70mph and still heard the noise and vibration. They used a stethoscope and pinpointed the noise to the rear of the transmission.
They drained the transmission and the fluid was clean and red. They removed the pan and inspected for any metal shavings - none found. They contacted the Ford Hot Line and were advised to inspect motor mounts and transmission mounts for excessive wear or damage - none found. The Ford Hot Line said that the transmission be removed, disassembled, and inspected. During inspection, they found that the torque converter studs had flattened and damaged threads. Also found that the output shaft showed signs of light scoring from bearings. They replaced both the output shaft bearings and assembly. They also replaced the torque converter and front seal pump.
They reinstalled the transmission and test drove. They can still hear the humming (they called it droning) noise between 65-70mph but was not able to feel any vibration. They theorized it could be exhaust drone. So after going to four different service places, this is the last stop. I guess if I'm concerned or annoyed enough, I'll just stay under 65 mph.
Glenn, you've done all you can do. The additive that was put in my rear axle eliminated my hum. I'm not sure but I thought there was still some vibration, I'll have to drive it more. I only drive 55-60 mph so I'll run it till it quits. I turned 72000 miles this week and it runs good. You've been through a lot, you need to start enjoying your LD. Good Luck
Lynn
Glenn, is your vibration gone? My noise stopped but still have vibration. My guess is the torque converter is making the vibration.
Lynn
Glenn, is your vibration gone? My noise stopped but still have vibration. My guess is the torque converter is making the vibration.
Lynn
Vibration is gone bit noise remains.
Thanks Glenn. My hum is gone but still have the vibration.
Lynn
Hi Glenn,
I was wondering how badly your cabover was damaged at the Ford dealer? Your initial comment (without seeing it in person) was you thought the cabover might need replacement. I hope it was just a scuff.
Steve K
Hi Glenn,
I was wondering how badly your cabover was damaged at the Ford dealer? Your initial comment (without seeing it in person) was you thought the cabover might need replacement. I hope it was just a scuff.
Steve K
It was a scuff. But the quote to repair it is $3,500.
Glenn, "scuff" sounds much better than your original thought that the cabover might need replacement. I suspect these kinds of situations are why a lot of dealers don't like working on motorhomes.
Thanks for the reply,
Steve K
"scuff" sounds much better than your original thought that the cabover might need replacement. I suspect these kinds of situations are why a lot of dealers don't like working on motorhomes.
Most shops do not like working on RVs because of the unforeseen problems that can arise.
A few months ago, a friend on California's central coast recommended his local shop to a friend who needed work.
While the rig was being worked, a mechanic folded one of the Velvac mirrors and the mirror arm broke, a common defect in the Velvac mirrors used by LD in the 2000s. The shop has to pay for the replacement, a cost of around $300.
This shop now will no longer work on any RV.
Larry