There is a new 7.3 Ford V-8 power plant. Estimates are for better gas mileage and more horse power and more torque than the V-10. It will be smaller than the 6.3 diesel and the V-10 in size. It will likely be paired with the 10 speed tranny. I’m curious as to whether or not it will replace the V-10 in the class C motor home market?
Dale from Downey.
Dale-
My understanding is that the new engine has been designed to replace the V-10 in all applications, including the E-series chassis. To date, the E-series chassis has been restricted to using the two-valve version of the V-10, as the three-valve version is said to be too wide to fit under the hood.
Here is a link to a thread on another forum:
Ford Announces New Large V-8 and Ten-speed Transmission (http://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/ford-announces-new-large-v8-engine-and-10-speed-transmission-429716.html)
Note: The thread gets pretty "geeky" in spots.
Mark H
Between you and me I'll be dead or almost dead before they work out all the teething pain with this new engine. But I'll glad they are moving forward. The 20 plus year old v-10 can use some upgrading thats for sure.
There is a lot of speculation out there about this new powertrain and the E450. One thing that keeps popping is the 10-speed transmission, 10 gears may not be necessary or even fit in the E450. Some state the top 3 gears are only for fuel efficiency in lightly loaded situations which do not exist in a fully loaded E450 MH. Time will tell.
Charles
I'm surprised they went back to a pushrod engine, it should be narrower than the 2V V10 and there is a good chance it would fit the engine bay of an E450. The V10 is physically a huge engine, made wider by the overhead cam heads. Engine bay width is the main restriction in the E450, any replacement engine needs to fit the somewhat narrow bay.
The unanswered question is if and when will the 7.3L engine become standard ?
It may depends on costs of the new engine and transmission and how much re-engineering the chassis would require to fit the new engine and to deal with the increased power and torque. The whole driveline is designed as a package, change one thing and everything else needs to match.
Ford has given us no useful information as to the future of the E450. It is such an old chassis, that sells out every year, Ford may not do anything other than sitting back and collecting the E450's continuing profits.
While the V10 has been updated through the years, and it's weak points eliminated, it still may not be able to meet upcoming emissions standards, assuming the EPA doesn't relax them.
So many question, so little actual information.
So, it's back to speculation time...again.
Larry
New info on Ford transit and new engines for it.
A Mom, a Hiker and a Deliveryman Walk into a Showroom; Each Drives out in a... (https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2019/03/05/2020-ford-transit.html?fbclid=IwAR1bX-RoSwk3gqzUAOy6af5Wova8-z9HCsUaXUUWHBEKuUQuzesVfXt8_E0)
Ron
Ford has given us no useful information as to the future of the E450. It is such an old chassis, that sells out every year, Ford may not do anything other than sitting back and collecting the E450's continuing profits.
While the V10 has been updated through the years, and it's weak points eliminated, it still may not be able to meet upcoming emissions standards, assuming the EPA doesn't relax them.
So many question, so little actual information.
So, it's back to speculation time...again.
Larry
Larry, you are so right. Not one official statement from Ford about the future of the E450 platform but loads of info about the V8 and the new Transit drive trains.
Charles
I'm surprised they went back to a pushrod engine...
Larry
Fuel economy. The V8 has 20+ % lower friction and part count than the V10. The V8 was also designed for both GPFI and GDFI, but will only be GPFI upon release.
Charles
Update to old post.
Ford has just released the Official 2020 Ford 7.3L V8 Power Numbers and transmission pairing information. The specs are class-leading in the heavy-duty truck segment, but the output of 435 hp / 475 lbs-ft torque is less than many originally expected. It appears there is also a lower power tune for E-series and commercial vehicles at 350 hp / 468 lbs-ft. The current V-10 is rated at 305 hp / 420 lbs-ft torque. The V-8 at the lower tune has the hp peak at 3,900 rpm compared to V-10 at 4,250 rpm with the torque peak also at 3,900 rpm while the V-10 is at 3,250 rpm.
Ford has also confirmed that the only transmission offered for the MY 2020 E-350/E-450 Cutaway chassis will be the TorqShift Heavy Duty 6-speed.
So there it is. Interesting.
Charles
Update to old post.
Ford has just released the Official 2020 Ford 7.3L V8 Power Numbers and transmission pairing information. The specs are class-leading in the heavy-duty truck segment, but the output of 435 hp / 475 lbs-ft torque is less than many originally expected. It appears there is also a lower power tune for E-series and commercial vehicles at 350 hp / 468 lbs-ft. The current V-10 is rated at 305 hp / 420 lbs-ft torque. The V-8 at the lower tune has the hp peak at 3,900 rpm compared to V-10 at 4,250 rpm with the torque peak also at 3,900 rpm while the V-10 is at 3,250 rpm.
Ford has also confirmed that the only transmission offered for the MY 2020 E-350/E-450 Cutaway chassis will be the TorqShift Heavy Duty 6-speed.
So there it is. Interesting.
Charles
Thanks, Charles, good to know! Any thoughts/ guesses on what the resultant improvement in gas mileage for a LD might be?
Thanks, Charles, good to know! Any thoughts/ guesses on what the resultant improvement in gas mileage for a LD might be?
Hi Greg. Lot's of speculation out there. Most are in the 15% range based upon Ford's claim of 20% less internal friction than the V-10 due to 2 less cylinders and all the OHC components. Also, some claim the V-8 will run more efficiently fuel-wise than the V-10. But one thing is evident from the power curves is that torque remains pretty flat from 1,500 to 4,000 rpm on the non-commercial engine; I would bet the torque curve for the E-Series engine (which Ford has not released) will be even flatter which I suspect could also result in measurable fuel savings.
Charles
Hi Greg. Lot's of speculation out there. Most are in the 15% range based upon Ford's claim of 20% less internal friction than the V-10 due to 2 less cylinders and all the OHC components. Also, some claim the V-8 will run more efficiently fuel-wise than the V-10. But one thing is evident from the power curves is that torque remains pretty flat from 1,500 to 4,000 rpm on the non-commercial engine; I would bet the torque curve for the E-Series engine (which Ford has not released) will be even flatter which I suspect could also result in measurable fuel savings.
So let's go with the 15% improvement for conversation sake. If those with newer LD's are averaging 10 mpg (this is just a guess) one could expect to average 11.5 mpg with the new combo. Am I on the right track?
So let's go with the 15% improvement for conversation sake. If those with newer LD's are averaging 10 mpg (this is just a guess) one could expect to average 11.5 mpg with the new combo. Am I on the right track?
Yes, but I seriously doubt many newer LD's are averaging 10 mpg. I bought a LD in spite of the milage. But of course YMMV. :)
Charles
Sounds like there will be some things worth waiting for on the new chassis (power, safety features) but gas mileage may not be one of them. ;)
Sounds like there will be some things worth waiting for on the new chassis (power, safety features) but gas mileage may not be one of them. ;)
Agreed. Fuel economy is just one of many trade-offs but of little importance to me now. Not like when I commuted before I retired. :)
Charles
Disappointing that it will not be paired with the ten speed tranny.
Here is a link I found one new engine. 2020 Ford Super Duty and Commercial Truck Powertrains: Filling in the Details (https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-trucks/2020-ford-super-duty-and-commercial-truck-powertrains-filling-in-the-details/ar-AAFaWY3?li=BBnb4R5)
Disappointing that it will not be paired with the ten speed tranny.
Dale. This update only applies to MY 2020. Ford won't say if or when the E-Series might get the new 10-speed transmission. Don't give up hope.
Charles
Yes, hope is good. Reminds me of a scene from Shawshank Redemption:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa9whWCL8EI
Another update.
According to Ford's official update the MY 2020 E-Series Cutaway and Stripped Chassis is going to be offered with either the 435 hp / 475 lbs-ft V-8 OR the "optional" lower power tune 350 hp / 468 lbs-ft V-8 for "commercial vehicles". Both are 7.3L. However, due to the GVWR of the chassis that LD orders it appears that only the “optional" lower power tune engine will make it to LD. Still an improvement.
Charles
It states that it mates with a 6 speed, double overdrive tranny. Does that mean 8 total speeds?
It states that it mates with a 6 speed, double overdrive tranny. Does that mean 8 total speeds?
Nope. The top two gears are overdrive on the 6-speed as they have been for as long as I know.
Charles
Pickup trucks with 32 square feet of front sail and 7000# to 22,000# GCW range will likely use all 10 gears.
Our Cutaways with 64 square feet of front sail and 11,000# to 18,000# GCW range are less likely to get the benefit of those extra 4 gears.
Agreed. Fuel economy is just one of many trade-offs but of little importance to me now. Not like when I commuted before I retired. :)
Charles
It may make a huge difference at first if and when they start making less gas engines, then gas prices will go way up .BUT when that happens, which it will ( less gas engines) technology will be so advanced it won't matter because by then we can Travel across country with no worries about Gas millage, :)
Scotty Kilmer says, “ stay away from the 6 speed transmission, they’ve had nothing but problems with them”. Does anybody have a 6 speed now.? I’m wondering what your thoughts are.
I have no experience with the 6-speed transmission in Ford trucks, specifically the E-450 (and I had no idea who "Scotty Kilmer" was), but the information at this link might prove useful to owners of 2016 and on LDs with the 6R140 transmission in question.
https://www.trnw.net/z-search/6R140.php
All gas mileage and gearing issues aside, this is something that scares the 'bejesus' out of me! I cannot feature any vehicle shutting itself down at a stop light. Not having it start up again is what nightmares are made of. ::) My Grandson's F250 does that, and watching the oil pressure take a dive gives me chills. ???
"On commercial vehicles, there's a fuel-saving feature that selects neutral any time the vehicle is at a stop with the brake applied (think of it as auto-stop/start for transmissions)."
I cannot feature any vehicle shutting itself down at a stop light.
It's not a new thing - hybrids have been doing it for decades. And when I think about how often my vehicles - cars, vans, motorhomes, even aircraft - have failed to start, I see no reason to worry about a vehicle
designed to stop/start. In the last 30 years, every vehicle I've owned has always started when I turned the key. The three exceptions involved batteries run down by leaving the lights on, and a used vehicle with an old battery when I bought it.
I'm not the biggest fan of heavy duty Ford automatic transmissions. I wore out three 4R100 transmissions before John Wood built me one of his. It has been bulletproof.
About the best you can do with these transmissions is keep them cool with a good trans. oil cooler and change the oil in the trans and torque converter more often than recommended.
That's how I am treating my present 5 speed in the Lazy Daze. When it dies, it goes to John. 6 speed and 10 speeds? Let's hope they have improved the build quality and longevity.
"...every vehicle I've owned has always started when I turned the key."
Turning the key is not my concern! What I worry about is not 're-starting' after a stop at any random red light or stop sign.
Of recent days I've become aware of the sounds of an engine re-start from a car in the adjacent lane when the light turns green. With todays computerized technology only one fail-safe device will leave you dead in the water, so to speak! ::)
Scotty Kilmer runs a vlog on YouTube.
I’m not fond of the 4R100 transmission on my 2003, but if it goes south, a trip to John Wood’s shop in beautiful downtown Holtville is definitely the plan. 😉
We have a 6 speed in our 2017 MB towing a 4000 pound jeep wrangler and have 24000 miles on it without a problem with the transmission. We are getting about 1 to 1 1/2 MPG more than our 2005 did. The rpms run about the same in the sixth gear of our 2017 as they did in the 5th gear of our 2005.
Joan
"...a trip to John Wood's shop in beautiful downtown Holtville..."
Is this the same transmission shop that Larry Wade recommends? ::)
Ford is also bringing back the Bronco, after 20 years. The Bronco and the baby Bronco. I’m wondering if they will be towable and what they will weigh, if they are.
"...a trip to John Wood's shop in beautiful downtown Holtville..."
Is this the same transmission shop that Larry Wade recommends? ::)
John Wood has a good reputation for building strong Ford truck transmissions.
Ford uses the same transmissions with diesels and gasoline engines. The diesel tuning crowd crank up the turbocharger's pressure to increase the torque and horsepower. Many transmission have died under this abuse and John builds transmissions to handle the increased power.
Our V10s produce much less power than the Power Stroke diesels and, with the heavy-duty rebuild, John's transmissions are just about unbreakable as long as the fluid temperature stays within limits.
John recommends installing a much larger transmission cooler, especially if you tow.
Larger transmission cooler E450 | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157648794273051/)
John Wood Automotive - (http://www.jwtt.com)
Larry