I'm looking for advice about what to do in this situation.
Last week my LD would crank but not start. Suspecting a fuel pump, I talked to a local mechanic about it (including size/weight/etc..) and he said no problem bring it in. I called coachnet and had it towed over. He does a diagnosis which includes testing the fuel line for pressure and squirting starting fluid in the throttle body. He says no fuel - it needs a fuel pump. I agree to the repair.
Today he calls and says it's too big and he can't do the work. He tried to drop the tank and couldn't get it out from under the vehicle. He decided to put everything back together and now it starts and runs. His theory is that he put some pressurized seaform in the fuel lines while doing the diagnosis and maybe that cleared things up. I'm skeptical.
Now I need to decide if I should (a) drive it home and hope for the best or (b) take it to another (more carefully chosen) shop and tell them I want a new fuel pump even though it runs fine and I'm not all that confident in the first diagnosis.
Ideas?
Rich
'03 MB in NC
A bit aggravating when they have the rig then decide they can't do the job. Probably for the mechanic too.
I would take the middle path- find a good garage that can do the work and have them analyze it from the start (no pun intended).
I had a fuel pump put on my 92 MB. The shop did it in their lot, with jacks and jack stands from underneath. Maybe the 03 is different. A good mechanic is a treasure.
For comic relief: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9qsnSLDEqMc the scene from the movie Head Office in which Rick Moranis is dealing with his Mercedes mechanic. It is a side splitter.
"He tried to drop the tank and couldn't get it out from under the vehicle."
Rich
I am now running on my 3rd fuel pump ('04 30'IB, 89000mi).
It is not necessary to take the tank "out from under" the vehicle.
The 1st replacement was done with the LD positioned over a pit inside a shop where I could not watch. The 2nd replacement was done outside, up on a lift, where I could watch. Here the workers had built a platform under the vehicle to support the tank while the work was being done. It will make the job much more easy if the tank is nearly empty. ;D
While the tank is down make sure the technician replaces the short pig tail that connects the generator fuel line to the tank output. It will fail sooner or later. Ask me how I know that!!!! It was on still another occasion that mine was replaced and a stainless fuel line was installed all the way to the generator. 8)
Rich,
First reset the rollover safety switch (mine is above the right kick panel by the heater).
If the pump is 55,000 miles old, I would encourage the shop to put the rear tires up on 4x4 blocks to remove the tank and change the pump.
I think they are unsure as the failure starts out intermittently and and is only detectable at low fuel levels and maybe at starting.
I have an '88 MB with the 470/7.5L V8, and Frame rail mounted injection pump with in tank transfer pump. In this forum it was indicated the tank pump lives about 55.000 miles. My in tank pump failed as I drove it home from purchase (57,000 miles), and it would run well until the fuel level reached the 3/8 mark. Then it would not go faster than 40 mph. It is a brushed motor and "brush wear out" gives intermittent failure until the armature slings solder or it looses contact with the commutator. Jiggling bounces the brushes back into contact with the commutator and the pump will run for a while.
If the mechanic did check the pump and found the pressure out of specification, then a new pump is in order.
Your rig is old, like ours, and the pump probably has a lot miles on it. Fuel pumps, of our LD's vintage, have a poor history of longevity.
Our 2003 has 98,000 miles and I wonder if the pump should be changed as preventative.
Would rather change it at home instead of finding someplace that can handle it, 1500 miles from here.
Aged fuel pumps can be intermittent, sometime a good wack on the bottom of the fuel tank is enough to free up...for a while.
Then again, your LD's could have be an intermittent electrical problem that cut the power to the pump.
Wonder if he checked for power at the fuel pump, before he dropped the tank?
A dirty plug, at the tank, could have been the problem. At this point, it's all a guess.
Your 2003 LD should have a drain, at the bottom of the fuel tank, that can be used to completely empty the tank, before dropping it.
A small amount of remaining fuel, even two three gallons, will make the tank more difficult to handle.
The power of sloshing is easy to underestimate, unless you are an experienced boater.
While the pump can be changed, partially dropped, it might be a better idea to pull the tank out for a good internal cleaning and inspection for rust.
As Steve suggested, replace the fuel line that goes from the tank to the generator.
Larry
"In this forum it was indicated the tank pump lives about 55.000 miles."
----
Don't tell my 100k+ fuel pump about this! :o
Joan
A good mechanic is a treasure.
Indeed! The mechanic I used to take the LD to closed his independent shop because of the hassle of running a business. He now has a bay at a high performance off-road shop and just does transmission work.
I left out part of the story in the interest of brevity. Best I can tell, they managed to drop the tank despite it being 1/2 full of fuel. They then wanted to slide it out from under the vehicle and it wouldn't quite fit. This led them to try and lift the RV on a 9,000lb lift despite a previous conversation with me about the RV weighting closer to 13,000lbs and him pointing out that the lift was only rated to 9,000. A cable in the lift snapped, and at that point I think they were just scared of what might happen next. Following that story, relayed to me by phone, I decided that moving the RV to a different shop was was a pretty good idea.
While the tank is down make sure the technician replaces the short pig tail that connects the generator fuel line to the tank output. It will fail sooner or later.
Yes! I had this on the list of things to do. Given the story above I'm not sure if he would have followed through or not.
If the pump is 55,000 miles old, I would encourage the shop to put the rear tires up on 4x4 blocks to remove the tank and change the pump.
I think they are unsure as the failure starts out intermittently and and is only detectable at low fuel levels and maybe at starting.
I'm at 70k. I have HWH jacks and offered that those and some jack stands could safely lift and support the rear of the vehicle but after the lift incident (see above), I think all they want to see is the RV driving away. I'm afraid that the problem is intermittent and I'll regret it later if I don't replace the pump now. I had some extra cranking before starting on the last trip and in retrospect it was probably a warning sign.
If the mechanic did check the pump and found the pressure out of specification, then a new pump is in order.
I thought he did, and as he told me last week that he used a fuel pressure gauge (0 reading) during diagnosis. Today it sounded like he just disconnected a fuel line and looked for squirting fuel instead. I personally checked the safety switch, fuse, and relay before bringing it to him so I know that part was done correctly.
It is all a guess, and I'll be interested to see if it starts again in the morning!
Rich
'03 MB in NC
I chose a different approach and mounted a second fuel pump (Airtex) on the frame rail near the fuel filter with all necessary fittings and hoses. I can remove the fuel filter and replace it with the auxiliary fuel pump. It's power comes from the standard fuel pump control module. The wiring is there, just has to be connected. It does pump fuel with the tank pump off but I have not connected it up and driven it.
I can't recommend anyone else do it since it hasn't been completely tested. I did it because the RV is parked in the backyard between fence, house,and alley with no way for a tow truck to get in there and tow it out if it won't start. Stored with a full tank repairs would be difficult. I haven't put the connector on the power line yet because it would require cutting and putting a connector in the standard wiring. I decided to wait till I needed to cut the wiring before doing so.
I think I wrote it up and posted it a year or two ago. It has been too long to remember part numbers. The most difficult part was duplicating the fuel filter fittings in the lines from the fuel pump. Those fittings are called bundy tubes.
I don't think much interest was shown at the time but I rest easier thinking that no matter where I am when the fuel pump fails I should be moving again within an hour. If I would complete the wiring I could do it beside the road in ten minutes.
I also carry a replacement OEM fuel pump. It was expensive and took several days to get in Phoenix. Probably a few more days in a remote location.
Just an idea.
Harry 2006 RB
Rich,
Oh man what a story. Lucky those Mechanics did not kill them selves.
I reference to the O psi pressure from the in Tank "Transfer Pump. As far as the 1988 and 1991 Econoline Chassis I have, the in line fuel pressure is nearly Zero while in operation. The "In Tank" pump pumps to the Reservoir Filter Cup in the left frame rail with a return to the tank. The only significant back pressure is gravity, the Reservoir Filter, and the rubber flap check valve on the return tube inside the fuel tank. People take the Strainer out of the Reservoir Filter Cup most of the time. The frame mounted Injector pump draws fuel from the reservoir , pumps to the fuel rail and injectors at 50 PSI or so, with a pressure relief back to the Reservoir.
Where the fuel pump is being replaced, do the new pumps have the same inherent flaws?
Matt
"Where the fuel pump is being replaced, do the new pumps have the same inherent flaws"
Yep, OEM, made in Thailand I think. Maybe they have made improvements but we wouldn't know that. I was surprised to see how small the pump module is.
Harry 2006RB
"Where the fuel pump is being replaced, do the new pumps have the same inherent flaws"
Yep, OEM, made in Thailand I think. Maybe they have made improvements but we wouldn't know that. I was surprised to see how small the pump module is.
The pump itself is small, about the size of a can of tomato paste.
I usually recommend replacing the whole assembly unless an OEM pump assembly isn't available.In this case, I recommend a Bosch pump.
Larry
I chose a different approach and mounted a second fuel pump (Airtex) on the frame rail near the fuel filter with all necessary fittings and hoses.
I don't think much interest was shown at the time but I rest easier thinking that no matter where I am when the fuel pump fails I should be moving again within an hour. If I would complete the wiring I could do it beside the road in ten minutes.
Just an idea.
I remember the thread well and had hoped you would report back on how it worked.
If you ever decide to test it at home, please report back on the results, it's an interesting idea.
Larry
The pump produces fuel pressure when hooked to twelve volts so I'm confident it will work. If I ever hook it up to the fuel pump module like the original is I'll post the results.
Harry 2006RB
Follow-up on the original story:
I drove the RV to a better mechanic and he took it for a long drive with a fuel pressure meter attached to the fuel rail. After more than an hour in all kinds of driving he saw nothing that indicated the pump wasn't up to specs. After talking with him, I decided to take my chances and keep driving it.
I used it for every errand for the past 8 days or so and never had a single problem. I understand that I might still have a problem if there is a bad spot in the fuel pump and I land on the unlucky spot again. On the other hand, maybe it was an electrical problem (wiring harness, as suggested above?) which was resolved when the tank was dropped by the mechanic who backed out on the job.
For now I'm carrying a jumper wire so I can remove the fuel pump relay and send power straight to the pump. If I find myself with a crank-no start again, I can jumper the fuel pump and crawl under to listen for the pump sounds. I'm also carrying a rubber mallet so I might be able to jar it to starting if I do have a problem.
In the mean time, I'm going to look for an opportunity to change the fuel pump myself. I'm thinking about using oversized ratchet straps to drop the tank like this guy did : https://youtu.be/s7kVEe77n7E?t=5m20s
One advantage of doing it on my own schedule is that it's far easier to empty the fuel tank while the pump still works using the relay jumper wire and the fuel filter disconnects.
We'll see how it goes.....
Rich
'03 MB in NC
I'm sure this is in my future, too. The 'threaded rod' method in the post below is probably how I'll do it (solo), as it keeps alignment under control, and probably can be done without a jack if you're patient. (I have a small transmission jack, so no worries either way.)
Cost estimate to replace generator fuel line (http://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=25616.msg137511#msg137511)
Chip
I'm sure this is in my future, too. The 'threaded rod' method in the post below is probably how I'll do it (solo), as it keeps alignment under control, and probably can be done without a jack if you're patient. (I have a small transmission jack, so no worries either way.)
Cost estimate to replace generator fuel line (http://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=25616.msg137511#msg137511)
I wrote the posting on how to lower the tank with threaded rod. My user name was mixed with Laramie RT, during the transition to the new forum site.
I have use threaded rod to lower the tank enough to replace the generator's fuel line.
With a long enough threaded rod, the tank could be lowered and set it on a furniture dolly and then rolled out.
Trying to change a pump, while it is still under the motorhome, is going be very difficult or impossible. You will need to raise the rear of the LD high enough to clear the tank, plus the height of the dolly.
A low profile transmission jack would be my preference, over a furniture dolly, if enough overhead clearance is available.
Larry
I have removed 7 tanks( 15 to 40 gal) in my past using muscle, floor jacks, or the ratchet straps. The ratchet straps gave me the most control of the tank through the entire process. With the threaded rod all my muscles ache thinking about is the 15 turns of the nut for 1 inch of travel.
I had a leak in the 3" long rubber fuel line "pigtail" at the generator end recently. Is there a similar "pigtail" outside the fuel tank? Would this be what should be replaced when the tank is dropped, or the whole fuel line to the generator? On my 2003 RB the pigtail connected to a white (plastic, nylon, I am not sure) line back to the fuel tank which was then covered by a protective cover. All that did not look like it would spring a leak as easy as the pigtail with hose clamps.
FYI, I had a problem with my previous 1996 Dodge RV fuel pump. It would run fine until the fuel got somewhere below 1/2 tank and then not so well-intermitant. Had I known this I may have saved running it to far backfiring and ending up replacing the intake manifold gasket as well as the pump.
Jay
"Is there a similar "pigtail" outside the fuel tank? Would this be what should be replaced when the tank is dropped, or the whole fuel line to the generator?"
The answer is 'Yes'. The pigtail that causes the most grief is the one at the tank which connects to the line running to the generator. I do not know if LD has corrected this issue but at one time the pigtail they used was NOT 'fuel' line but just a rubber hose that they had on hand. Make sure any replacement is certified for 'fuel'.
What I had done, when the tank was lowered, was to replace the entire generator fuel line with stainless steel after the pigtail was replaced with the proper hose. ;)
I had a leak in the 3" long rubber fuel line "pigtail" at the generator end recently. Is there a similar "pigtail" outside the fuel tank? Would this be what should be replaced when the tank is dropped, or the whole fuel line to the generator? On my 2003 RB the pigtail connected to a white (plastic, nylon, I am not sure) line back to the fuel tank which was then covered by a protective cover. All that did not look like it would spring a leak as easy as the pigtail with hose clamps.
The generator fuel line consist of two pieces of rubber fuel line, with a nylon hardline in between.
If you have already replaced the rubber line, at the fuel tank, you should also change the piece that connects from the nylon hardline to the generator.
LDs, built in the early 2000s, had problems with the generator fuel lines prematurely leaking, LD evidently had a large roll of fuel line that "had" to be used before any new fuel line could be ordered.
Dozens of us have had to drop the gas to replace this $2 fuel line.
Thanks LD.
Larry
I have only replaced the piece at the generator end. Sounds like both the fuel line to generator and the fuel pump should be replaced if the fuel tank needs to be dropped for either reason. Maybe even worth thinking about as preventive at near 100k miles, but that sounds expensive.
My current need is to replace the sections of bad fuel line at each end of the main generator fuel line. Before I crawl under there in the rain, can anyone say with certainty what diameter replacement line I should get for replacing the short sections at each end? 2000 23.5' FL, and the badge on the fender says "E350 Super Duty". Just trying to avoid running out for parts with the fuel system half-apart.
Thanks in advance...
Chip
Well, this 2000 23.5' FL may be one of the ones that you can't get to without completely dropping the tank. Had high hopes, but after prepping some threaded rod for the 'drop bolts', I found a couple of minor details...
First up, the tank uses bolts on driver side right to the frame, but the passenger side is different. The tank is not full-width between the rails, so there's an intermediate frame on the passenger side. That C-section frame faces the main C-section frame, and is close enough you cannot get between them to get at fasteners. And you'll want to try to get at fasteners, because the passenger side has frame-mounted studs, rather than bolts going into the frame. So no extended 'drop bolts' on that side. Max drop on existing studs is about 1.5". Sadness.
I can photograph the generator feed, but actually getting to it from the front means reaching over all the other hoses, and puts your arm either ahead of the diff, or behind it. Each has its barriers, so no go, even with the 6" blocks under the wheels for added elbow room. Attacking it from the driver's side in the back puts you in tank clean-out central. I might be able to get in if I remove the cleanout hose storage 'tube'. We'll see.
I'm more likely now to drain and drop the tank entirely -- or drop it enough to access the generator line below frame level. Have a 30-gal 'gas buddy', so that part's easy. We'll see about the rest.
Chip
Chip, did you already replace the fuel pump for the generator? The engine's (up front) fuel pump is in the tank but I think the generator's fuel pump is at the generator. It is for the Microquiet 4000, I am not sure on earlier generators.
If your replacing the engine's fuel pump ignore the rest of my post.
If you know you have the bad fuel line yes you need to drop the tank. But your post sounded like your doing both line and fuel pump because you think the generator's fuel pump is in the gas tank. The generator's pump, though not a easy to replace, is not technically difficult and does not require removing anything that weighs a lot. The job is difficult because the pump is buried in the generator compartment below stuff. Getting to the generator fuel pump can be done with a couple wrenches, sockets and a short extension. I would consider replacing that before dropping the gas tank to replace the fuel line.
Forgive me if I read your post incorrectly. Just trying to save some hard work.
John
Working my way down to the generator. Available time and assistance has me focused on the main tank connection for the genny. Main engine fuel pump isn't exhibiting any symptoms of badness, which is why I was going for the slight drop instead of complete removal approach. If I take it all the way off, I may replace it pre-emptively; 80,000-ish miles.
Generator is 'surging' instead of running at steady RPM, which I understand points generally to fuel supply inconsistency (although other causes exist as well). Since hose integrity is a known issue in the 2000 model year, and it's a (theoretical) $5 fix if handled at home, it seemed a good place to start. I'm comfortable with the hard line between the hose bits on each end, since my 50+ year old sports car uses the same thing, and it's held up well.
Generator-end hose segment is next of the low-hanging fruit, then genny fuel pump/carb attention is next on the list if still called for. I'll be in that vicinity in a few weeks, attending to de-rusting and re-finishing propane tanks also. I have a fuel pressure gauge that's good for EFI and standard carb pressures, so I'll probably verify pressure consistency as part of the troubleshooting. I'm sorely tempted to add a 'tap' for quick fuel access, too. On the fence about that one; there are some nice valves available for marine use, and a valve+cap affair should provide appropriate belt+suspenders backup. Looking for safe, no-hassle transport of fuel for other types of equipment.
Chip
I replaced my Owan 4000 fuel pump in 2015. Here is a link to the process. When the fuel pump gets old it will some times deliver inconstant or weak fuel pressure. At first the pump surged a few minutes and then would run just fine. Then if I was using the AC in very hot weather it would sometimes cut out. Finally I could not run the AC at all. I went to a shop and had the generator and AC checked out (Restless Wheels RV in Manassas, VA. No trouble found with either item, they were doing other work on the RV and did not charge me for those two items. I will go back to them in a hart beat if in need help). Eventually the generator refused to start at all. From the good folks here I learned how to check the codes on the panel (flashing light sequence). Here is a link to the "how to" that is posted on the Lazy Daze Companion site. The Lazy Daze Companion: Generator - Replacing Onan 4000 Microquiet Fuel... (http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/2015/09/generator-replacing-onan-4000.html)
John, thanks for the link and the comments. I'll be adding them to the reading list.
Andl, just to complete the wholesale hijacking of Rich's thread (sorry)...
I snooped around with my little inspection camera tonight, and was able to read the words 'fuel' and 'vapor' on the genny line into the tank (position 3, hose clamps instead of fancy connector, line going to genny). On an end view, it had the 6 or so fibers embedded in the sides that I've noticed on other aftermarket fuel hose. So my take was, the tank connection had been addressed before. Line was soft and pliable, but not 'dead' gooey, and not dry and flakey. I had the tank dropped on long bolts on left, and resting on a transmission jack on the right. With tank 3/4 full, I was happy enough for now to re-secure it and troubleshoot the other end of the fuel line. Re-securing the tank took all of 5 minutes. Easy enough to pull when much emptier.
I peeled a little plastic wire loom away from the generator-end hose, and have found no writing so far, and the end view didn't show fibers in the walls of the tube. I'll dig into that later next week.
I have three now-extra 12x1.75 mm threaded rods, about 6" long, if anyone needs them. Of the 6 I made, I'll be keeping 3 for future use.
Chip
I'm still following along and enjoy reading the updates from everyone else.
I pulled into the driveway from my last weekend trip with the low fuel light on. My plan is to try and drop the tank one of these weekends and see what's going on.
The start of the trip was fine, no symptoms. By the end of the trip I noticed a few extra cranks (3-4 seconds) before the engine fired up. 2 flips of the key (which starts the fuel pump for a few seconds but doesn't crank) seemed to help. I'm taking that as a sign that I'm living on borrowed time.
Rich
'03 MB in NC
I dropped the fuel tank today and ordered a new fuel pump. Here are some things I learned for anyone thinking about doing the same. My mid-bath LD is a mid-2003 chasis with a December 2003 delivery date.
You need a 15mm and a 21mm socket to drop the tank. A 5/16" socket loosens the clamps connecting the fuel fill and vent just inside of the gas cap. I hit the fuel tank fasteners (nuts on one side, bolts on the other) with some penetrating oil the night before and had no problems removing them. I used 2 ratchet straps purchased in a 4-pack at Costco to control the descent (Goodyear brand, 1000lb limit, $20, Item#: 103929). If you go this route, think ahead about how much strap needs to be rolled onto the ratchet to allow a complete descent. You don't want the strap slipping when the tank is only halfway down. I wrapped the hook ends of the straps around the frame.
Combined with my HWH levelers, dropping the tank was easier than I anticipated. Getting in back into place might be a different story. I laid some 2x4's down to act as rails for sliding the tank towards the back on the rig once the tank was lowered and free.
Getting to the fuel line disconnects was the trickiest for me. You need a Ford fuel line disconnect tool to release the fuel lines, which is the same tool you use to change the fuel filter. I always struggle with those disconnects. Having done the fuel filters a few times (on various Fords) helped. I wish the fuel lines were 6" longer.
You will need pliers to remove the pinch clamps attached to the 2 fuel vent vapor valves. The vapor vent hoses are showing some wear and I might replace them as well. A 1/2" wrench will remove the nuts attaching the pump to the tank.
Most of the tools are pretty standard, but I had to buy the 21mm socket and some people may not have the Ford fuel line tool. I think most auto parts places carry them.
Fuel was almost empty (low fuel light was on) . That made a big difference. I plan to siphon out the remaining few gallons before reinstalling. I would not attempt this with much fuel as pushing/sliding the tank around was useful.
The infamous short piece of hose attached to the generator pickup was indeed cracked and aging. Replacing it should make starting and running the generator easier. That alone will make this project worth the effort.
Amazon has the OEM part in stock (Motorcraft pfs20 for my 2003) and might be a good option for someone needing to find that part while traveling. I ordered it tonight and it should arrive on Tuesday.
For anyone following my entire saga, I have no doubt that the first mechanic I towed the RV to did not drop the tank, despite his statement to the contrary. There was a collection of crushed acorns (mice) on top of the tank but no evidence of chewing on any of the wires or hoses.
Reattaching everything and lining the tank up for re-installation should be interesting. It's always easier to take things apart than to put them back together.
Suggestions welcome!
Rich
'03 MB in NC
Rich,
Sounds of success!
At least there is no broken 9000 lb. car lifts this time!
Rich, take your other two ratchet straps and deploy them the same way, except hold off on threading/adjusting them until you need to relieve the first set as they reach over-extension or too-big-a-roll-o-strap on the reel. In other words, have them at-the-ready to take over when the travel limits of the first ones are met. That way, you don't have to block up the tank from beneath in order to complete your lift/lower process.
To re-hang my tank, I had to use a ratchet to pull the tank to the right to align the holes. Only needed to move it about 3/4", but it was steady and precise using the strap. No prying needed (as there was nothing to pry on to move that particular direction...).
Are you considering extending all factory fuel lines enough to be able to drop the tank completely without worrying about disconnecting them?
Chip
If you own a rolling floor jack or a transmission jack, I would use it with along with the straps.
Place the jack under the tank, with a square of plywood between the tank and the jack.
The jack provides more stability and the ability to easily lift the tank.
I like the suggestion to use four straps, alternating them, if necessary, to provide the needed lift.
Instead of having 2"X4"s, on the ground to slide the tank on, use a couple of furniture dollies, if available.
They will make it easier to move the tank.
Do drain the tank as completely as possible, even a couple gallons of gas, sloshing around, will make the tank cumbersome and unstable to handle. Our 2003 LD's gas tank has a drain in the bottom of the tank.
Please let us know if the Ford pump is the proper pump, once you have had a chance to compare them.
I need to do this before taking off on our summer trip.
Larry
re: jacks -- I used a floor jack with a factory adjustable spreader bar for lowering, Was able to adjust for slight fore-aft tilt, and put a pad on each end strap with a wood block in the center. However, floor jacks describe a small arc when lifting and lowering, and some misalignment did occur. (On gravel, so no rolling to re-align.) Mid-stream, I switched to a scissor-style transmission jack, but used it to hold just the passenger side -- driver side was held by longer bolts, and I was only lifting one side. The V-groove in trans jack saddle was helpful.
Empty is better than full. Or even 3/4 full. I'd like to know the thread size of the drain plug before I take it out. Anyone know for sure -- 2000 E350 Super Duty (FL)?
Chip
I appreciate all of the suggestions. I sometimes do things the hard and slow way (like siphoning the fuel instead of using the drain plug) just because I'm more confident that I won't screw it up. In the end I siphoned 6+ gallons out and I'm sure I would have placed something like a 1.5 gallon container under the plug....
I'm also doing the job on a gravel parking pad which limits the usefulness of wheels at times.
The Motorcraft pfs20 seems to be an identical replacement, down to some of the numbers stamped in the top plate.
I'm off to buy replacement hose for everything I can find before putting it all back together.
Rich
Rich,
I appriciate your work location.
Card board to cover the rocks.
Square wheels, wooden skids, and rachet straps.
Just like working in the dirt fields of my youth,
Or the grassy suburban front lawnof today.
No shame in siphoning. You have much more control.
Chip
No shame in siphoning. You have much more control.
Chip
Unless you are these guys . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIsfTV6xgxA
I'm off to buy replacement hose for everything I can find before putting it all back together.
Did you finish?
I'm planning on doing this soon, before it gets too hot.
The heavy rachet straps seem like a good way to do this.
Larry
Not yet. We took a non-RV trip over the weekend.
Rich
'03 MB in NC
I put the fuel tank back in place. The coach starts beautifully and I can confirm that the pump listed upthead is working for me in a 2003.
I'd say that reassembly was a bit easier than dropping the tank, but it took more patience. In general, I would lift and tilt using a combination of the webbing straps and a floor jack until I could reach a connection (there are 5). The generator hose was the easiest since there was lot of slack. The rear tank fuel vapor vent was easy, and the forward vent was doable with the front of the tank lifted up and the rear slanted down. I connected all 3 of these from behind.
To connect the 2 fuel lines I had to lift the rear and passenger sides of the tank up while leaving the front driver side down a bit. From there I could reach up and from the driver side and reconnect the fuel hoses. That is a one handed job (much easier than removal) due to the connection 'click' and the built in metal clips (as opposed to the plastic clips sometimes used).
Reattaching the tank was a matter alignment. The ratchet straps has a tendency to life the side with the ratchet more than the opposite side. Also, I used a third strap attached to one of the rear skid guard to gently twist the tank into a straight line.
There are 3 studs on one side of the tank (passenger) and 3 nuts welded to the frame of the driver side. The studs were easiest to align and the bolts going into the nuts were a bit more difficult. I did the studs first, but would probably try bolts first if I were to do it again.
In summary, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but it did take a bit of patience and thinking to get everything into the right place at the right time. My fuel tank was empty, and I would not try it without an empty tank. I also had a few floor jack and a few large blocks of wood to help direct/rest the tank as I wiggled it into place.
It might be placebo, but I was surprised as how quickly and easily the engine started for the first time. To me it seems much improved over starting with the old pump.
I was also very pleased at how the generator ran with the hose directly in a fuel can (I haven't filled the tank to the generator dip level yet). All of the surging and hesitating and hard starting was gone. Again, maybe it's just my imagination but I think the cracked old piece of fuel hose was causing some issues.
Rich
'03 MB in NC
Rich
Thanks for the great write up, I'm sure it will be of help to many, including myself.
Any idea how high the rear needs to be lifted, so the tank can be pulled out?
Larry
Larry,
Based on my removal of the 36-42 gallon tank from an '88 MB, I would estimate, putting the rear wheels up 4 inches would give enough room to slide the tank out on cardboard.
I lifted with the HWH kickdown jacks, combined with 2 orange leveling blocks on each side. I had more than enough room to slide the tank out. Tires were still on the ground, but of course the suspension was sagging. I also had a slight downhill slope behind the tires.
I'm pretty sure the story from the first mechanic about not being able to slide the tank out was untrue. From the bolts and dirt and other clues, he never dropped the tank as claimed.
The bigger issue with height would be getting the fuel send and return lines disconnected. I accessed them from the back (they are towards the front) and used as much height as I could get to reach both arms and the disconnect tool in there. You might be able to get away with less height if you disconnect the fuel lines from the front driver side of the tank.
Sorry I can't be more help, but hopefully it will give you some ideas.
Rich
Larry,
Based on my removal of the 36-42 gallon tank from an '88 MB, I would estimate, putting the rear wheels up 4 inches would give enough room to slide the tank out on cardboard.
Be aware that different models require different methods to change out the genset fuel hose. On our '02 30', the mechanic put the LD on an outdoors lift and simply lowered the rear tank supports (he may have loosened the front supports a little) and accessed the fuel hose from the rear. He made it look easy. It was actually a pretty quick job and around $200 I think.
Chris
Be aware that different models require different methods to change out the genset fuel hose. On our '02 30', the mechanic put the LD on an outdoors lift and simply lowered the rear tank supports (he may have loosened the front supports a little) and accessed the fuel hose from the rear. He made it look easy. It was actually a pretty quick job, especially on the lift, and around $200 I think.
Chris