Dear Wizards--
I thought I posted about this a couple of days ago, but could find neither my original question, nor any responses--for some reason the local McD's lets me read on this site, but sometimes throws up an error & won't let me post (more gremlins?). I'm at the library now, so hope this goes through.
Wednesday evening I went out in the driveway to get the paper & noticed my white backup lights were on--this had not been an issue the previous evening when I brought LDy Lulubelle to the Stix & Brix to start prepping for Ladeze.
I have done the following: checked all the switches by the main coach entry door (I know there are porch/utility lights for driver/curbside, but thought maybe there was something I'd missed to turn on the white lights for extra light out back)--no; I turned the ignition key to the "ON" position & moved the gear shift to "R"/to "D"/back to"R"--nothing changed/white backup lights still blazingly bright; tapped breaks while shifting through the positions (P/R/N/D/etc)--still no change in the white backup lights.
Just had another thought as I looked at the buttons below...perhaps I saved it as a draft at McD's but didn't post when I came to the library the next day...now I don't remember how to retrieve a saved draft to post. :-[ Anyway, I would be thankful for any thoughts on why my backup lights are permanently on, if it's something I can remedy, or if I need to have it looked at before I hit the road. Hope I do this right this time. Thx to all.
Lynne
Hello Lynn. Can't help on the backup lights. Wish I could. Draft posts ... Go to account, go to profile. You should see posts, stats, and drafts on the left of the page.
Lynne. I've found a number of similar problems with Google. The common denominator problem was a switch wired/attached to the transmission. Several Ford truck owners took their problem backup lights to Ford for repair. This is the best I can find.
Backup lights are usually controlled by a switch on the transmission. Used to be cheap but with the newer versions where there is a witch on the same shaft that tells the engine computer what gear you are in may not be as simple.
Garry
Not witch but switch but when it don't work you maybe tempted to think of it as a witch..
Garry
The backup lights should not be 'on' unless the ignition switch is in the 'run' position, no matter the transmission mode. So, the wiring has probably been re-routed somehow, either by someone working on the chassis, or possibly rats eating through insulation and shorting out wires.
Steve
The backup lights should not be 'on' unless the ignition switch is in the 'run' position, no matter the transmission mode. So, the wiring has probably been re-routed somehow, either by someone working on the chassis, or possibly rats eating through insulation and shorting out wires.
Steve
Good point Steve I missed that.
Ed, Garry, & Steve--
Thx for the ideas. This is so bizarre...the ignition is "OFF" (the steering column is locked & the key is out of the ignition); re: re-routing wires, no work has been done (especially between Tuesday evening when I brought her to the house to prep & Wednesday evening when I first discovered this). I'll check for critter damage, but all I've noticed around the house/yard are the squirrels who are trying to gain access to my nuts (my stash of pecans/walnuts/hickory nuts seems to have been broadcast on the Tell-A-Squirrel Network) :P .
Garry, I knew what you meant (re: "witch"), but I am thinking another consonant at the front of the alphabet is closer to my attitude about this... ::)
I have a neighbor who once ran a Ford implement dealership in town, so I may ask his opinion. I'll report back when this gets resolved. Thx, again, guys.
Lynne
I have no good guesses. Steve is on the right track, they should never be on with the ignition in the 'off' position.
Until you can fix the problem, remove the backup bulbs, so you can drive without blinding someone behind you.
You might check the owner's manual to see if there is a fuse for the backup lights, which could be removed.
Larry
Thx, Larry--
I was wondering about this, if it wasn't resolved before I hit the road next Tuesday heading to Ladeze...another thing to learn, & a host of good teachers (wish I'd had some of ya'll around when I was taking my grad stat course :P )
Lynne
Just in case it wasn't obvious, those lights are going to run down your engine battery. I'd pull the bulbs right now, before you find out that you can't start your coach to take it to a mechanic.
the tow harness is down there too. The back up lights wouldn't be in the harness but a stray squirrel may have tried to put this I'll gotten gains somewhere and loosened some grounds for you.
If you haven't pulled the bulbs. I'm not sure that is easy. The fuse should be accessible. In the main box. Manual and box labels and will tell you what they are. Disconnect that starts ng battery will prove it is the source of the issue and keep it healthy to drive in future.
the tow harness is down there too. The back up lights wouldn't be in the harness but a stray squirrel may have tried to put this I'll gotten gains somewhere and loosened some grounds for you.
If you haven't pulled the bulbs. I'm not sure that is easy. The fuse should be accessible. In the main box. Manual and box labels and will tell you what they are. Disconnect that starts ng battery will prove it is the source of the issue and keep it healthy to drive in future.
Lydia, I think all that needs to be done to pull the bulbs is to unscrew the lens ring, remove it and remove the bulbs.
Chris
Dear Wizards--
The Ford service manuals are soooo confusing for a know-nothing (the index had nothing about "back up lights"--it was something about "lamps, reverse", & nothing about a "fuse box" but we finally found something about a "power distribution module), but I'm learning. :P
Here's some new info. My neighbor was trying to help me wade through all these excellent suggestions, as well as some Google info, and finally suggested just disconnecting the chassis battery (yes, Andy, I'd thought about the battery running down...& wondered why it hadn't with those lights on continuously for five days now ??? ). My neighbor was thinking it might reset something somewhere (I do love the notion of the spontaneous regeneration of inanimate objects). Guess what?? No reset--spontaneous or otherwise; the lights did not go out with the chassis battery disconnected. >:( I'm going deep into mechanical/electrical/unknown (to me) territory weeds at this point, but if the lights didn't go out with the chassis battery disconnected, does that mean they are being powered by the solar system? ...or maybe there really are gremlins (& are you paranoid if they really are out to get you?)
Whatever the case, uh, now what? I will pull the bulbs as suggested (Yes, Chris is correct--there are three screws holding the lens ring in place, so that's easy), to keep from blinding drivers behind me, but I was thinking I'd just go to Merle Kelley Ford that did good work for me back in July (I'm going back to Chanute, to KS RV, anyway). A) If it's not the chassis battery, other thoughts? B) If it's not the chassis battery, does it make sense to go to Ford, or do I start looking for answers about the solar system? C) AM Solar is a loooong ways from the boonies of north Missouri, so I'm in a quandary.
Thx, all--
Lynne
Instead of I Am Woman, Hear Me Roar, I'm now just Confused In The Midwest :P :(
Lynne. I don't think your rig is new enough to have LED reverse lights, Those 'back up' lights are incandescent. They are only supposed to go on when you are in "Reverse" to let other drivers know you are backing up. Don't remove the three screws mounting each light fixture to your motorhome. Remove the white lens first by squeezing together the ends of that steel ring you will find on each of your six back light fixtures (both red brake/turn/running, and reverse). Use a cloth and push up on the bulbs towards the base and turn 'lefty' to release the bayonet pins on the bulb from the fixture. A spring should push the bulbs out. the wiring harness is protected somewhat; you would need a short of the reverse hot lead to another hot lead. If you pull the fuse you would likely lose something else with it, like your horn, or marker lights, etc. The solar system isn't suddenly running your lights. It is unlikely that rodents would cause this type of problem. I would suggest it is a misalignment of the gear selector, and the mechanism operating the lights. Do you have a Dodge Chassis? and yes the lights might stay on, even without the key. Hope this helped. RonB
Ok so here is a really dumb question (kinda lost track of the Gremlins progress at this point)...here goes.
Have you started your truck and shifted through the gears? Sometimes "stuff just happens" and you know Gremlins...they can be tricky.
Just sayin'/askin'
Kent
Lynne's initial post in this thread said that she had run through all the gears several times with no change in the backup lights. Her report that the lights did not go out with the chassis battery disconnected makes this mystery even deeper.
Clearly something is powering those lights. If they're still on when the engine isn't running, that something could be the engine battery, the house battery, the converter (if plugged in), or the solar panels. She has ruled out the engine battery by disconnecting it. Her initial post said that she first noticed the problem on Wednesday evening. Does that mean the lights are on all night, in the dark? If so, then the solar panels are ruled out, leaving only the house batteries or the converter.
So the first question that comes to mind is: is the rig plugged in? If so, unplug it and see what happens. Pull the solar power system fuse and see what happens. Disconnect the house batteries and see what happens. These steps should help you pin down where the power is coming from.
One of the puzzling things about this situation is that it strains credulity to think the backup lights--a standard Ford chassis feature--would somehow be getting power other than from the engine battery. But wait--there are two possible links between that battery and the house batteries.
First, the isolator is supposed to allow the engine battery/alternator circuit to charge the house batteries when the engine is running, but prevent the house circuits from draining the engine battery when it isn't. However, a defective isolator (and that's not uncommon, given that they're mounted under the hood in an extremely hostile environment) could be allowing the house batteries to power the backup lights.
Second, some solar charging controllers have a separate output to charge the engine battery. If Lynne's does, it's possible that it could be feeding power to the chassis's system even with the engine battery disconnected. In other words, it might be effectively bypassing the isolator, at least during the day.
So for what it's worth, here's one possible scenario. Let's say a defective switch on the transmission is trying to turn on the backup lights all the time. And let's say the isolator has failed in such a way that the house batteries are connected to the engine battery, and thus to the chassis electrical system, all the time. Then the backup lights could be on all the time, even with the engine battery out of the circuit. If so, then disconnecting the house batteries (at night, when there is no solar power, and when the coach is not plugged in) should turn off the lights.
There are probably other ways this situation could occur, but that's at least one way.
Under the hood, behind the coolant reservoir, there is a bundle of wires that is often damaged from rubbing the rear of the reservoir. The wire's insulation can be scraped off, allowing the wires to possibly contact each other.
Removing the three screws, securing the reservoir, allows looking behind to see if any wire damage is present. If so, use electrical tape to repair missing insulation and lastly, bend the wire bundle away from the reservoir, to prevent further damage.
Another very possible cause is a previous owner installed a switch to turn on the backup lights, as an aid in dealing with a toad, at night. Look around for any unexplained switches in the dash area.
Your LD would not be the first to have a switch for the backup lights.
Larry
"Under the hood, behind the coolant reservoir, there is a bundle of wires that is often damaged from rubbing the rear of the reservoir. The wire's insulation can be scraped off, allowing the wires to possibly contact each other."
----
I learned about this issue a few years ago, and boogied right out to the rig to see if the wires (in a 2003) were bundled and away from the coolant reservoir! They were, apparently delivered from the factory all compactly wrapped, because I hadn't done it, and I'm the original owner. I wonder if the lack of "bundling" was something that affected LDs of earlier model years?
Since you've worked on a bazillion rigs of all models and years, have you observed the non-bundled wires in post-2003 LDs? Definitely worth checking on any model year, of course!
Chris. 05 and 06 had incandescent tail light array from factory with the spring clip bezel. Not the most intuitive removal process. Also those who converted to led usually left the back up lights alone. My previous owner did.
Lynne
You have a 31 foot. I do too. However I have the IB. I have access from side to side through a pass through bin arrangement. I can access the wiring for the tail lights there. If someone was apt to make changes for a switch they could have done it there and loading your bins hit it.
I can attest to wierd switches hidden in places. I put one in my LD dash to keep the critters from unlocking the cab and my jeep had one installed Hidden to turn off the cabin lights when the doors are of or open long.
I could see a switch hidden a away choosing between normal cab driven reverse operation and toad hook up assist. Makes sense
Not that it helps now. But I am going to give a talk on electricity involving hands on work by the participant. I am using bulbs too if you don't have it rectified by the time you come up (and regale us with the whole story) I'll be happy to dig in and see if we can resolve it 💅
Since you've worked on a bazillion rigs of all models and years, have you observed the non-bundled wires in post-2003 LDs? Definitely worth checking on any model year, of course!
Terry Tanner was the first to find this problem in his 2000 MB. He found wires with big bare spots. I have seen several more with the same issue. Our 2003 LD was rubbing.
Not sure how long the rubbing issue persisted but it is worth checking on any E450 chassis. Many have minor rub marks.
The fix is to bend the wiring harness away from the reservoir.
Larry
Hi, All--
Update: My 6'+ 20-something young man (who laughed at me from my yard when I channeled Helen Reddy from LDy Lulubelle's roof) pulled the LEDs for me, so no blinding anyone behind me--by the way, RonB, I was wrong: there are 16 LEDs in each backup light, not 9, but thx for your earlier thoughts.
I came through Kansas City for a couple of appointments, before heading to KS RV in Chanute for an appointment tomorrow. Though I had turned on the ignition & shifted through the gears when this saga first started, I didn't pull out of the driveway until this afternoon. With sun to the left & in front of me, I used my visor at various times, & there's another gremlin--the backup camera monitor in the visor won't power off??? :P ???
I will A) ask KS RV about this or B) go to Jake (the great Service Mgr at Merle Kelly Ford on the same street in Chanute, who was so helpful with the alignment/bushing replacement/etc. in July), or C) wait to be a demonstration of electrical mysteries/searching for gremlins during Ladeze (thx, Lydia--I am so looking forward to your presentation, learning to use my dad's voltmeter, & exploring the magic & wizardry of electricity. I did take an evening adult ed class at our vo-tech years ago, & though realizing my limitations, added some outdoor GFCIs to my previous stix 'n brix, with no fires or electrocutions in the past 20 years).
Lydia, thx for the thought about hidden switches in the pass through, but I'd not been in/out of there 'til I was loading today...but now I know somewhere else I must go spelunking. :)
I will have this page up when I go to KS RV or Merle Kelly, in order to share all the thoughts & efforts at troubleshooting from those who have intimate knowledge of the anatomy of an LD. Thx to you all...more to follow...Ldy Lulubelle, the 4-Legged Alarm, & I are headed west--it's Ladeze or bust. As Ed says, "And so it goes." :)
Lynne
Good morning, All--
The rain last night did nothing to reduce the humidity here in Kansas--but Chanute has a nice FREE campground with H2O & electric, so I did have AC last night.
KS RV replaced my toilet valve in a jiffy first thing this morning--they made it look so easy, but it's worth it to me to have somebody who knows what he's doing knock that chore out.
I then drove down the street to Merle Kelly Ford & Jake had a slot open up this morning--Patrick (the same tech who worked on her in July) is now hunting for the gremlins...& they've got internet, so news of gremlins may be forthcoming.
Paul, I so admire you & the others who talk about your adventures when you are putting Humpty-Dumpty back together again, or just doing creative mods like pantries/adding tile to the kitchen/changing out the flooring/etc.--each discussion is a learning opportunity. Thx!
Lynne
Lynne, as the French say, bon courage!
I would soon rebuild an engine than deal with your lights issue. Electicity is something that makes me feel stupid. Enjoy Chanute, near where my parents were married.
I'm sure hoping that these annoying problems get sorted. Sounds to me that you deserve a bit of peace and quiet. Please keep us updated.
Aw, those pesky Gremlins . . .
Gremlins (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBEVwaJEgaA)
Lynne, as the French say, bon courage!
I would soon rebuild an engine than deal with your lights issue. Electicity is something that makes me feel stupid. Enjoy Chanute, near where my parents were married.
Thx, Paul. I sorta understand a bit about electricity (the notion of open/closed circuits, conductivity of certain materials, H2O & electricity mix too well for the safety of organic lifeforms, my many limitations, etc.)--I'm really looking forward to Lydia's presentation at Ladeze. RE: electricity & H2O--I was on pins & needles when I was trying to plug in at the nice little Chanute RV park last night...raining cats & dogs :P (with the 4-Legged Alarm going off inside the rig ::) )...I was fearful of a shocking life lesson & annoyed that it took three moves to find a pedestal that came on (but I wanted the AC enough to risk it ::) . Chanute is a really nice little town--I say little because like Chillicothe it's under 10,000 & within a two-hour drive to KC for big city fun, but given all the KS budget problems, this town seems to have a lot going for it: the industrial park (where KS RV & the Ford dealer are located) seems much better than ours in Chillicothe, they have a beautiful new high school, the FREE RV park, a nice-looking downtown, etc.
Thx, Ed--as Blanche Dubois said in
A Streetcar Named Desire, "I have always depended upon the kindness of strangers." & am blest to have the resources to do what needs doing as I learn to keep in mind "It's the journey, not [just] the destination"..."and so it goes." ;D
Lynne
So no results from the tech snooping around today?! Geeze. I'm going to have fun!!
Sleep well.
Though I've been on the site a couple of times the past day since I got to Denver, I'm finally gathering my thoughts while my aunt naps, to report on the gremlin infestation…sorry it's taken so long.
I must again sing the praises of Merle Kelly Ford in Chanute, KS. They worked for a day & a half trying to chase this all down, were really positive, & a pleasure to work with (in spite of the gremlins). :) They never came close to throwing up their hands & telling me to find an RV place to work on it. I'd actually asked KS RV when I first got to my plumbing appointment last Wednesday, & they had told me to go to Ford (because most heads thought it must surely be something to do with the Ford electrical system), so that RV place wasn't the answer, anyway.
After disconnecting the chassis battery, the house batteries (though not at the same time), the wiring harness at the frame rail junction block on the driver's side, the fuses under the hood, the fuses under the dash, tracing OEM wires, backup camera wires--there were no chewed/rubbed/worn/frayed wires…but the gremlins kept taunting us. Grrrr--Arghhh!
I had offered a couple of times to let them read this whole discussion (at the beginning & midway through the search), but they just dove right in. Lydia, you get the prize! ;D They finally found a wire to the backup lights that seemed to go somewhere--but no switch inside the pass through bay. I went inside to pull the mattress off the driver's side bunk, to see if we could find an easier access from the top (the plywood decking has a cutout at the base to access the 120 outlet at the foot, but the rest is screwed down), but after pulling off the mattress, before we started unscrewing the decking, I discovered an on/off toggle switch in the outside corner--in the ON position! Flipped that puppy to OFF & one problem was resolved. The only thing we could think of is I must have jiggled the switch when I was changing the bed linens :-[ (I sleep in the curbside twin, but thought I was going to have company with me, so was changing the other side out for the first time in ages). There was still one gremlin--after everything was re-installed, the OEM reverse lamp was still not working correctly, but they traced that back to the power control module box under the hood, replaced that faulty relay, & voila--all gremlins have been exorcised. ;D
I don't know which of LDy Lulubelle's previous families did that mod, but it's obviously not OEM--though I can see how it could be useful to have such bright lights available at the touch of a switch (though I might have considered a 3-way, with one in the pass through bin & one in a more visible spot inside).
I didn't even ask what their hourly shop fee was--this needed fixing & I trusted them--but to cap it all off, Jake (the service manager) discounted their shop fee. O:) I was expecting something in the neighborhood of $1000, given the approximately 10+ hours I think they were tied up with this. He only charged me $555.06--yes, a chunk of change, but something I couldn't have done myself…'til I found the switch under the bunk--& now I know what it's for.
So, my aunt will go to supper & then to bed here in a few hours, & the 4-Legged Alarm & I will get in a short leg as we head up I-25 out of Denver to Ladeze. Life is good--or as Ed says,
…and so it goes.
Lynne
When one's home on wheels is working it seems that life just looks brighter. Well done Lynne. We're mighty pleased that this troubling issue(s) is resolved for you. And safe travels.
Switched backup lights! I have never heard of such a thing, but my idea lightbulb immediately lit up! Supplemental rear yard lights- Do I dare????
Great sleuthing, Lynne.
Had a supervisor tell me once, " Keep a notebook and write down everything you do during a repair". I never did and still don't. Now I take pictures
Sometimes we do things out of the ordinary that can haunt us down the line. Your Gremlins are a perfect example of that.
Next time something goes wrong with my LD I may kick myself for not taking notes.
Oh well, on to the next feature. I hope it's not Jaws.
Kent
Putting an unlabeled light switch under a mattress has to be one of the worst ideas I've ever run across. Roll over in bed and find your batteries drained in the morning--great!
Andy,
Once again you read my mind. I suppose if Lynne wanted to keep it there for "extra" lighting she may want to enclose it somehow. They do make toggle switches with flip covers that could be installed. Kinda like a booster rocket.
Light speed to Endore. :D
Kent
Dear Wizards--
They're baaack..but moved! About 50 miles out of Rawlins, WY, I noticed the Check Engine light on. Grrrr-Arrgghhh!
Oil, Temp, & Battery gauges look OK (in the range my untrained eye is used to seeing them). I spent the night just north of Wellington CO then cut across to 287, which I took to I-80 at Laramie. The roads were good, but it seemed like western KS/eastern CO where there are long pulls up a hill, even though it looks like fairly gently rolling open country. I usually drive 55 with the cruise, & the RPMs are usually around 2000, sometimes up to 3000 when I'm climbing a hill. But it seemed like she was shifting so much, and frequently going all the way up to 4500 RPM, that I stopped using the cruise & thought perhaps the Tow-Haul would smooth things out a bit (I tried to re-read everything about mountain driving before I left, but it still seems like it's a gut feeling--at least my gut's not feeling too good about this).
And of course, it's Labor Day...good luck finding a mechanic. I needed to make a Walmart run, so she was off for about an hour in the parking lot (I almost bought some Incredible Hulk boxing gloves to give her a good pummelling >:( ), & the light did not reset while she was waiting for me. Walmart gas: $2.09; the Shell & Sinclair stations across the street: $2.54. I'm at McD's for the internet & some carbs to calm my nerves; going to ask around about possible mechanic options.
Andy--I've only had someone sleep in that bed twice, with no problem--I think it was me dragging the mattress out to change the linens that must have caught the switch just right; I don't think general wiggling would get it...plus it's at the very head. But I am going to label it so it won't be a secret for someone in the future--from what I've seen on here, LDy Lulubelle will likely find a new family when my kids haul me off--but that will be a while since I qualify for my National Parks Pass today. ;D
Kent--I could probably get by with a yogurt container ;D , but I like "Kinda like a booster rocket. Light speed to Endore." or perhaps something like Inspector Gadget or James Bond...take your pick. ;D
Thx to all...still hoping to make it to Ladeze (without busting).
Lynne
Lynne,
I try to avoid cruise control while climbing mountain roads. For me it makes the drive train work too hard. My foot does a better job in those instances.
I tend to use the tow haul if it's a "normal" grade. Steep inclines like those one might experience with 6% inclines I stay out of tow haul and stick to "picking" an appropriate gear for the climb (tow haul only works in drive anyway).
I hate check engine lights. They scare the heck out of me. Wish the darn thing would just tell me what I did wrong. Could be something as simple as a loose gas cap. There's always hope.
Keep us posted.
Kent
Hi Lynne. Well this won't help you now, but I'll put in a recommendation for a Scangauge 2. Many of us have them. Mine is taped to the dash so I can read the RPM, water temperature and outside air temp, (no tachometer from Ford). It can also scan for trouble codes, and reset them. You do need an internet connection usually to look up the codes to find out what they mean. A friend of mine spent over $100 to have Honda read a check engine light on his vehicle. It was a loose gas cap. I've heard that some auto parts stores will read your codes for free (hoping to sell you a part). Maybe you could find one along the way. Hope this helps...RonB
Here in the MidAtlantic states Advanced Auto Parts, a auto parts chain, will scan engine codes free. I don't know if the chain is national (think so but not sure).
That way if the issue is something simple you can pickup the part, install it and go. If it is more complicated it gives you something to tell friends.
That said, getting a Scanguage2 as as Ron suggested is a better solution.
John
" after pulling off the mattress, before we started unscrewing the decking, I discovered an on/off toggle switch in the outside corner--in the ON position! Flipped that puppy to OFF & one problem was resolved. The only thing we could think of is I must have jiggled the switch when I was changing the bed linens "
I suggested looking for an back-up light, override switch, after finding a couple of them in other LDs.
Lots of 'mystery' switches and jerry-rigged wiring in older LDs. Our LD has hundreds of feet of added wiring, but the switches are located in easy to find places and the wiring installed to LD, or better, standards.
Whoever installed and hid your switch wasn't too bright.
Glad you found it.
Larry
Hello, & Thx to all who have followed this saga--
I tried to post from the McD's in Pocotello, but kept getting an error message, so am using the wifi at the Redfish Visitors' Ctr while here with the Ladeze (& having a grand time), & will give the update on the engine light, etc.
Hi, Wizards--
Finally did get to Ladeze & it's been a howling good time--good company, good food, good information! ;D
A gentleman O:) in the McD's at Rawlins overheard my question about possible garage/mechanic options, & while everyone was shaking their heads, he shared that a local guy was open just a few blocks away--it was about 4:00 on Labor Day, so I boogied on over there.
They read the codes (more detail when I reread the computer printout, but something about a random misfire, misfire on #5??, and the O2 sensor). They reset the codes, sent me out to drive about 20 minutes with a section of road that would include some climbs that should cause the transmission to shift/etc. When I got back, with no light on, the gave me the printout, their opinion about the 7K altitude might be causing a leaner mixture (affecting the O2 sensor??), that I should use cruise on the open valley areas & the tow-haul when climbing ascents (I already understood creeping over the summits & being in 3 or 2 or L coming down)--& my ultimate go-to question, "Would you feel comfortable sending your grandma out?" was answered in the affirmative since the light had not come back on (the owner looked to be a Boomerish age like me, so his granny would have been really adventurous). :) They also said I should put something called Seafoam in with every fill-up. And they charged me $75--but I know that's more than the five minutes the guy had his scanner plugged in & resetting the codes--it's also knowing enough to interpret the codes & give me information to make a semi-educated decision (stay for more evaluation or head on down the road & see what happens).
I made it into Kammerer, WY, that night; slept in the hospital parking lot, & headed on up US 30 the next morning. Should have gotten gas there ($2.15), because when I filled up in Pocotello, it was $2.45, & now $2.79 in Stanley :( ).
Yes, I've been considering a ScanGauge as I read all the discussions on here, but figured I'd still have to find a mechanic to interpret the data...at least 'til I've graduated to a level of Apprentice Wizard-2-B ;D . I've learned so much from all the Ladeze this week--technical/electrical/canine…Thx Larry & Joan for your lists to Lauralee--and EMS is the next thing on my list.
Ed, I love your tag--and so it goes. :D
Lynne
Lynne, I had a similar experience a couple years ago pulling a RV trailer in my '04 Tahoe. We were on Hwy 168 headed up to Shaver Lake. Between Prather and Shaver Lake there is an 7 percent grade for 11 miles. About three-quarters of the way up that grade, the check engine light came on - oh oh! I did not have a way to read the code either so was blessed to find Fat Boys garage who read the code for no charge! Shout out: Fat Boys Garage - Auto Parts & Supplies - 41579 Dinkey Creek Rd, Shaver... (https://www.yelp.com/biz/fat-boys-garage-shaver-lake)
Short story is that my Tahoe was not tuned to climbing higher elevations pulling a 6000 lb. trailer! They reset the engine light and we had no further issues on our camping trip.
Lynne
Odds are the problem will return since the shop did nothing to it, beside clearing codes.
If you have the codes available, an educated guess could be made to the cause.
High altitudes, if anything, would result in a rich fuel/air mixture, not lean.
Seafoam is nothing more than solvent in a can, it is't going to cure your problem. They suggested adding it to possibly keep the injectors clean.
The use of Top Tier gas eliminates this need since it contain injector cleaners. If you insist on using a fuel injection additive, try Chevron Techron, in the recommend amount for your size tank.
Our LD gets this treatment once a year, usually buying a six-pack of Techron at Costco.
FYI, your V10 is happy to cruise uphill at 4000+ RPM, it is designed for this type of operation.
Larry
Well I myself am a big believer in seafoam..because for me it has been successful.
I am sure there are others just as good.
As far as the misfire Mode 6 on ford is a great tool. This is a bit techie but you can see that you can have several misfires before you set a code. In your case it seems as if it set a code so you had considerable misfires. Which confirms that it will more than likely repeat.
Mode 6 Misfire Diagnostics - Ford (http://www.wellsve.com/video_mode6misfire.html)
The mode 6 misfire count on Most fords is reset after every ignition switch turn on and off.
The following is a quote..from Revisiting OBD II's Missing Mode — Mode (http://www.underhoodservice.com/revisiting-obd-ii-s-missing-mode-mode-06/)
"On some vehicles (Ford mostly), all the Mode $06 data is erased and reset to zero when the ignition is turned off. On others, it simply picks up where it left off when the engine starts."
Garry
Gosh, I was excited to find a possible test mode for ignition misfire....but our 2003 E450 (chassis built Aug 8, 2002) doesn't seem to have this mode, when looked at with a decent scanner. Not a single $06 mode to be found. Darn.
The 2002 Expedition, mentioned in the link, most likely has different smog regulations and controls, something that a much heavier, truck-like vehicle may not be required to have.
Emission regulations change according the the year, weight and class of the vehicle.
I might check a few newer LDs, next weekend in Ventura at the LD Caravan Club GTG, to see if this mode is installed in later E450 models, it would be a handy diagnostic tool.
Larry
Gosh, I was excited to find a possible test mode for ignition misfire....but our 2003 E450 (chassis built Aug 8, 2002) doesn't seem to have this mode, when looked at with a decent scanner. Not a single $06 mode to be found. Darn.
The 2002 Expedition, mentioned in the link, most likely has different smog regulations and controls, something that a much heavier, truck-like vehicle may not be required to have.
Emission regulations change according the the year, weight and class of the vehicle.
I might check a few newer LDs, next weekend in Ventura at the LD Caravan Club GTG, to see if this mode is installed in later E450 models, it would be a handy diagnostic tool.
Do you have an android device I would be happy to send the cheap bluetooth scanner I use for Mode 6 readouts. As I mentioned they reset on every startup so are only good while driving or before you shut the vehicle off, but are a great aid when you have intermittent misses under load..
Garry
Larry
Larry every ford I have ever checked in that vintage has mode 6 but I only have a couple of scan tools that read them properly and surprisingly one of them is a cheap bluetooth scanner using the Torque app on android. Also the obd pro usb scanner with software from GLM in Australia worked on my 2004. However that same scanner wouldn't even connect to my workhorse chassis(2003 model) and they never could find the cause. Supposedly the data is a requirement of the obd2 spec but is implemented differently on different vehicles.
Garry
Larry every ford I have ever checked in that vintage has mode 6 but I only have a couple of scan tools that read them properly and surprisingly one of them is a cheap bluetooth scanner using the Torque app on android. Also the obd pro usb scanner with software from GLM in Australia worked on my 2004. However that same scanner wouldn't even connect to my workhorse chassis(2003 model) and they never could find the cause. Supposedly the data is a requirement of the obd2 spec but is implemented differently on different vehicles.
Garry
Larry,
What tool are you using? The scan gauge might not read the mode $6 diagnostic but should see misfires. I monitor misfires on my 97, PID 22160e on my e350, which is not part of the mode 6... I'm still troubleshooting a misfire every now and then on cylinder #6 under load and high temps. I currently use the torque app on Android but I have seen the same advanced diagnostics in other Android software. It took me a while to find what the different mode 6 codes are and many of them do not work on my 97 with a get valve.
I have decent scanner but could not find the $6 mode. Then I realize that our 2003 LD (built Aug 8, 2002) is the older OBDI system, not OBDII. The OBDI classification is indicated by a plate on the door.
Not sure what year the E450 was changed to OBDII. It shows misfires only if a code is set.
I do have a Torque Command OBDII app and sender, if i can find it. It didn't work at all in my Jeep, upsetting the computer, causing it to set an a CEL code and putting the engine into the failsafe, limp-home mode. Nice.
I will have to find it a give it a shot with the LD, being able to 'see' active misfires would be useful.
Larry
"....being able to 'see' active misfires would be useful."
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I've seen plenty of "active misfires" in my lifetime! (Code reader not required!) :D