Lazy Daze Owners' Group

Trying to learn more about solar options, preferences etc. (Have never personally experienced solar on our '99 RB.) Our rig is too old to upgrade but would like to better understand our options when we buy new.

This is a good starting point; click on "Solar Education" and follow the links through the primer:

RV Solar Education — AM Solar (http://amsolar.com/diy-rv-solar-instructions/)

Note: The "DIY" designation on this web page might be confusing; the links at page left are what one needs to know well before any DIY!

I bought two Renogy 100 watt panels from Amazon.com.  One I bought in a "kit" with a controller, and the other just the panel.  You can't beat the "price point" and I had the mobile RV guy I use here in Las Cruces do the installation. 

Amazon.com : Renogy 100 Watts 12 Volts Monocrystalline Solar Panel : Patio,... (http://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts-Volts-Monocrystalline-Solar/dp/B009Z6CW7O)

My only "complaint" is that I really didn't like the controller that only used lights instead of a digital readout.  When I was in Bend, Oregon last summer camp-hosting,  I bought one from a local company called "Zamp."  Actually, if you're in the Bend, Oregon area I highly recommend Zamp Solar!

30 Amp 5 Stage Solar Charge Controller - ZS-30A - Zamp Solar (http://www.zampsolar.com/product/30-amp-5-stage-pwm-digital-deluxe-solar-charge-controller-zs-30a/)

I run the lights, sometimes the fans, my XM "Bose type" radio, and my TV/DVD player to watch a movie at night using the inverter.  The system is "more than adequate" for my needs. 

I'm sure some folks may not like the brand, but for me it does the job and well.  It's like the Timex of solar (as opposed to the Rolex).   ;)

Should you put a solar system on an older unit?

We put a full-up solar system on our 1985 TK when we bought it in 1991. When we sold it to Andy ten years later, he added considerably to the system. When we purchased our 2005 RB in 2009, we again added a full-up system utilizing the many talents of AM Solar.

Would we do it again?

Probably not.

But this is because the way we RV has changed, not because the system does not work sufficiently. We did just fine for an entire week of dry camping a few years ago, running the generator twice a day trying to return the batteries to 100%, which was probably overkill, during those sessions.

Although hope springs eternal that we will be able to give it another go here pretty soon (c'mon cooler weather!), we have really not tried it out since. Our plan is to travel one short day, and then stay put for a day (possibly two) for the driver to rest up. There should be plenty of solar power to accomplish this - at least that is our fervent hope! If not, I will drag out all the apps on the iPhone that tell where the campgrounds with electrical outlets are located! ;->

The goal is Santa Fe - 500 miles away. Don't laugh, but we hope to make it there in two weeks of travel time.

Wish us luck!

Virtual hugs,

Judie

Adventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the West (http://dorrieanne.wordpress.com)

Today: Bastille Day Commemoration (http://dorrieanne.wordpress.com)

Our rig is too old to upgrade but would like to better understand our options when we buy new.

I have a 1998 and didn't consider it too "old" to upgrade.  If anything, it will increase your resale price.  However, it also depends on how much longer you plan on keeping your rig. 

I bought my 96 FL in 2007 without solar. Ran the generator for about 2 years and then added two 80 watt panels and a Morningstar 15 amp MPPT controller and monitor. It was easy to do and 7 years later I couldn't image going without solar.

It all depends on how you use your LD, I full time and  boondock so it's important to have as many power sources as possible.

Just got back from RMNP and just about everyone from pop ups to motorhomes had a portable solar panel set up in Moraine CG which has no hook ups. I had not seen so many in one place before.

I too have an 80 watt Go Power suitcase panel with charge controller to go with the 85 watts on the roof. Set that suitcase panel out early in the morning and the batts were fully charged or close to by the time we left for a hike an hour or two later. The rooftop panel topped off those days we left without a full charge in place.

Solar rocks. Generators suck. I have 251 hours on the genny over these 12 years and all but a handful of those hours are exercising hours. I likely have a different perspective if I was more than a weekend warrior.

I'd be interested to see how many folks do use a portable system such as those described here in a couple of posts.  Could that be added as a question to the poll?

Bill
2003  23' FL

We have 200 watt solar from the Factory and two (2) 6 volt batteries which gives us 225AH of power.  We dried camped for two (2) straight weeks earlier this year while parked under trees which gave us partial sunlight most days.  We used the propane heater at night and of course LED lights.  We never ran the generator, while a good number of our neighbors did ... sometimes for endless hours.  As you can read between the lines, we are mighty pleased with our solar panel performance.  Our RV experience would be much louder and different without the capacity to dry camp or boondock.

Solar Mike down in Slab City installed a panel on our Sportsmobile in 2009. We also replaced the incandescent bulbs inside with LEDs. 

We showed up again in 2010 with a new (to us) BT Cruiser the following year, and he installed two panels on that.

We took our 2015 TK up to AM Solar in Sept. 2015 and got the full meal deal. We're plugged into shore power now because it's hot as bejeezus here at Jojoba Hills, but we got excellent performance during our dry camping trips in 2015 and 2016 before going full time in June this year.

I wouldn't say the solar on the Sportsmobile or the BT Cruiser got anything extra for us when we sold them, but in both cases we sold to dealers rather than trying to sell privately. It may or may not enhance the value, depending on whether potential buyers like dry camping or only stay in RV parks with hookups.

fu

When we placed our order for our '15 RB and were checking off our options list we added the second 100 watt panel.

I asked Todd if that would be sufficient. He assured me it would be. I would have added another had he said otherwise.

At night, even after partial shade during the daily charging cycle, our batteries are sitting at 13 amps. After a night of fantastic fans, TV, Blu-rays, and furnace operation we are still above 12 amps in the morning. Ready for another charge.

I have occasionally pulled the LD into a opening in the valley or clearing to get that extra bit of sunlight just to be sure. Often, the charging system kicks into "float" mode and all is well.

So far, Todd was right. Two panels work well enough so far. Who knows what tomorrow will bring. I've thought of setting up portable panels but have decided to give the factory set up a couple of years before making any big changes.

Let the sun shine.

Kent

"Solar rocks. Generators suck."

Amen!

"Our rig is too old to upgrade"

Perhaps you're thinking that you don't want to invest thousands of dollars (which is what a good solar power system used to cost in the Bad Old Days) in an older rig. But solar power no longer costs a mint. And as Huskerblue points out, with a suitcase-style system you can move the whole kit 'n' kaboodle to another rig at the drop of a hat. In short, I can't see why any rig would be too old for solar power.

If you want an off-the-shelf, no-installation-needed system, you can get a 100 W Renogy suitcase (https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts-Monocrystalline-Foldable-Suitcase/dp/B00HR8YNK6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469908330&sr=8-1&keywords=renogy+suitcase) for about $265. Clip onto your batteries, set the panels out in the sun, and you're done. These suitcase systems are a great starter solution for someone with modest needs and a budget to match. You pay more per watt than if you put together a custom system, but for many people the convenience is worth it.

A step up is to get a couple of 100 W panels. For example, begin with Renogy's $170 Solar Bundle Kit (https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts-Volts-Monocrystalline-Bundle/dp/B00B8L6EFA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469908968&sr=8-1&keywords=renogy+100+w), then add a second 100 W panel (https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts-Volts-Monocrystalline-Solar/dp/B009Z6CW7O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1469908968&sr=8-2&keywords=renogy+100+w) for another $140. For just over $300 you can have 200 watts of solar power. You can lay the panels out on the ground, which gives you flexibility (park in the shade but put the panels in the sun), at the cost of the minor hassle of putting them out and taking them in when you move. Or mount them on the roof and just let them work for you.

All the setups just mentioned use low-cost "PWM" (pulse width modulation) charging controllers. If you want to milk the maximum power from your panels, you can step up to an MPPT (maximum power point tracking) controller. There are affordable models from Blue Sky, Victron (https://www.amazon.com/Victron-BlueSolar-MPPT-Charge-Controller/dp/B00U3MK0CI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469909368&sr=8-1&keywords=victron+75-15) and others.

You get the point. There are plenty of solar options, starting at less than $300. You don't need to permanently install anything on your older rig. Unless you do all your camping at places with electric hookups, it's hard to imagine why you wouldn't go solar.

Count me solar fan boy.  Our style of camping puts us in many boondocking types sites - US Forest  Service , National Parks, BLM, and other assorted off the grid places.  With solar we have a cheap noise free source to recharge the batteries.  Of course when the sun isn't out we do suffer a tad but when the sun comes out we live like kings enjoying all the free power our panels can suck up.

Wow! Thanks to the group for great feedback which has turned my thinking about solar upside down. In Minnesota one doesn't see a lot of solar in campgrounds. It isn't due to a lack of sunshine, this part of the country rates well for "rays". I'm willing to make a modest investment to join the solar family...had no idea there were so many affordable options. And this boondocking trip that I am  currently on reinforces my enjoyment of "fee free camping", solar would only enhance this experience. My biggest need for power relates to my electronic devices (ipad, laptop, and hotspot). I don't dare try to charge these devices off my current system - but with solar, I might be able to. For now, I spend at least an hour a day in coffee shops, libraries. etc. (Which isn't a bad thing but can occassionally be inconvenient.) I hesitate to modify the poll mid-stream, I do think it is a neat feature. Thanks again for all the informative insights.

Todd,

While you are enjoying your coffee at your local "caffeine" shop check out the "Wynn's". They are very active Class A enthusiasts that have been mentioned here at LDO many times.

They have some good insight on solar and have modified their systems over the years. Cute couple and educational videos to boot. You tube "GoneWithTheWynns" if you haven't already.

Enjoy,

Kent

Hmmm...

Of course if you really want to go solar, you can go this route...(shot taken at about 5pm and still going strong)...

Kent

Todd, might this product (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GT2FUB2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) be of value to you?

Amazon.com: Antigravity Batteries AG-XP-3 Multi-Function Power Supply and... (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GT2FUB2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

You could charge it up before you leave the house and at handy charging outlets along the way, possibly eliminating a few coffee shop trips.

In my purse, I carry a similar, but much smaller and less powerful unit that is ONLY for recharging my electronics, but the above one is probably a lot more powerful, and will also start your engine without having to hook up cables.

Virtual hugs,

Judie

Adventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the West (http://dorrieanne.wordpress.com)

Today: The Glass Ceiling (http://dorrieanne.wordpress.com)

My biggest need

for power relates to my electronic devices (ipad, laptop, and hotspot). I don't dare try to charge these devices off my current system - but with solar, I might be able to. For now, I spend at least an hour a day in coffee shops, libraries. etc. (Which isn't a bad thing but can occassionally be inconvenient.) I hesitate to modify the poll mid-stream, I do think it is a neat feature. Thanks again for all the informative insights.

Should you put a solar system on an older unit?

We put a full-up solar system on our 1985 TK when we bought it in 1991. When we sold it to Andy ten years later, he added considerably to the system. When we purchased our 2005 RB in 2009, we again added a full-up system utilizing the many talents of AM Solar.

Would we do it again?

Probably not.

But this is because the way we RV has changed, not because the system does not work sufficiently. We did just fine for an entire week of dry camping a few years ago, running the generator twice a day trying to return the batteries to 100%, which was probably overkill, during those sessions.

Although hope springs eternal that we will be able to give it another go here pretty soon (c'mon cooler weather!), we have really not tried it out since. Our plan is to travel one short day, and then stay put for a day (possibly two) for the driver to rest up. There should be plenty of solar power to accomplish this - at least that is our fervent hope! If not, I will drag out all the apps on the iPhone that tell where the campgrounds with electrical outlets are located! ;->

The goal is Santa Fe - 500 miles away. Don't laugh, but we hope to make it there in two weeks of travel time.

Wish us luck!

Virtual hugs,

Judie

Adventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the West (http://dorrieanne.wordpress.com)

Today: Bastille Day Commemoration (http://dorrieanne.wordpress.com)

Well I will wish you good luck!

" In Minnesota one doesn't see a lot of solar in campgrounds. It isn't due to a lack of sunshine, this part of the country rates well for "rays". "

The further north you go, the less effective your solar system will be.

Over the last few months, the Wynn's have transitioned to a 43-foot Leopard catamaran. They are still interested in solar power, though, and have made an interesting YouTube (http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/Sailboat-Solar-Series-Parallel-Shading) on how they moved their solar array from their motorhome to their new sailboat.

Sailboat Solar - Series vs Parallel & Shading (http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/Sailboat-Solar-Series-Parallel-Shading)

Virtual hugs,

Judie

Adventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the West (http://dorrieanne.wordpress.com)

Today: The Glass Ceiling

Todd,

While you are enjoying your coffee at your local "caffeine" shop check out the "Wynn's". They are very active Class A enthusiasts that have been mentioned here at LDO many times.

They have some good insight on solar and have modified their systems over the years. Cute couple and educational videos to boot. You tube "GoneWithTheWynns" if you haven't already.

Enjoy, 
Kent

2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"

I'm learning a lot  here and figuring out what might work for us. I don't want to stow and set up solar panels. (We don't boondock  in place for long periods.) Buying a renogy kit with 2 panels is very doable. But I confess to an aversion to drilling into our thus far watertight LD roof. I need to find the right installer -maybe we can work in  a visit to AM solar next year. I 'm guessing they could turn  us around in 48 hours. Tom's Mobile RV might be another option I'm still contemplating. Needless to say, any new rig in our future will be ordered with the 2nd panel.

But I confess to an aversion to drilling into our thus far watertight LD roof.

Your roof already has hundreds of holes in it, counting the screws.

LD has the solar wires enter through a simple electrical box plate, glued to the roof, it isn't exactly a high tech solution but is works fine as long as it is sealed. Here is an example of what a Factory installation looks like.
Yahoo - login (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/26841371955/in/album-72157661711994929/)

For a nicer looking thru fitting, Blue Sea marine makes several waterproof fittings.
I have install dozens of these over the years, they come in different sizes, depending on the wire size.
BLUE SEA SYSTEMS Large CableClam | West Marine (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/blue-sea-systems--large-cableclam--540757?recordNum=3)

BLUE SEA SYSTEMS Side Entry CableClam | West Marine (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/blue-sea-systems--side-entry-cableclam--14982490?recordNum=5http://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=blue+sea+cableclam)

Solar once was very expensive but the world has change and solar panels are now now cheap.
Don't cheap out on the wiring, to get full efficiency requires large wires, correctly size to the application.
A quality solar system will have less than a 3% voltage drop.

LD uses a Sky Blue 3000i solar controller, a nice unit but pricy.
https://www.emarineinc.com/blue-sky-sb3000i-mppt-solar-boost-charge-controllerRecently, I have installed a couple Go Power GP-PWM-30 solar controllers and they seem to work in a similar manner at about half the price of a 3000i.
Amazon.com: Go Power! GP-PWM-30 30 Amp Solar Regulator: Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/Go-Power-GP-PWM-30-Solar-Regulator/dp/B007KIUDBQ)
Both the Sky Blue and Go Power controllers have provisions for charging the starting battery, along with the main coach battery, a useful feature if your rig sits for long periods.

Solar installation
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157661711994929/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602104742393/
Larry

Hey Judie,

Wow! The Wynn's have finally made their dream transition. That's exciting. I've kinda lost track of they're goings on's over the last month or two.  I wonder what crazy adventures they will take us on now?

Their solar test was pretty interesting. Makes me wonder if my two LD installed panels are in parallel or series. I'll have to look into that. They sure behave like they know what they're doing.

I think I'll climb up top side and run my own little test.

Gotta get a little helper or I'm bound to fall off the roof peering through the window.

Watch out below.

Kent

Hi Kent. Your panels are wired in parallel. RonB

While Factory panels are wired in parallel, panels are sometime wired in series, primarily to save on wiring cost, by allowing the use of smaller gauge wire.
Series wired panels have a serious flaw, the whole system stops charging if one panel is shaded, where in a parallel system, the remaining panels continue to produce usable current as long as they are in the sun.

Larry

Larry, The link to the example of factory installation doesn't work. I'd appreciate it if you could check it, I'd like to see it. I appreciate all the info...I'm concluding that 2 100W panels roof top mounted are going to work for us. Thanks!

Larry, The link to the example of factory installation doesn't work. I'd appreciate it if you could check it, I'd like to see it. I appreciate all the info...I'm concluding that 2 100W panels roof top mounted are going to work for us. Thanks!

Try this.
Sky Blue 3000i solar controller | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157661711994929/)
When replacing the defective solar controller last year, with a Blue Sky 3000i,  the wiring coming down from the panels, to the controller, was upgraded. 
Not shown is the new 160-watt panel added at the same time, increasing the output from 240 to 400-watts. The wiring upgrade was done to prevent excessive voltage loss.
There are two photos showing where the wire conduct enters through the roof, using the Factory method.
The fittings, electrical box and conduct shown are all waterproof, exterior electrical parts, from Home Depot.
While the conduct was upsized to accommodate the larger wires, it is done exactly in the same manner as the original.
Like the original installation, generous quantities of polyurethane sealant was used to insure a water tight seal.
It's not high-tech but it works well.

Larry

"But I confess to an aversion to drilling into our thus far watertight LD roof."

I used VHB tape on my panels and 7 years later they are still right where I put them.
I did add some Eternabond tape over the top of the bracket and that helped secure it all.

"But I confess to an aversion to drilling into our thus far watertight LD roof."

I used VHB tape on my panels and 7 years later they are still right where I put them.
I did add some Eternabond tape over the top of the bracket and that helped secure it all.

When I installed a new panel in 2015, AM Solar was using VHB 4950 without screws. It seems like pretty durable stuff.

Jim

RV Solar: Is It Worth It? (http://www.technomadia.com/2015/11/rv-solar-is-it-worth-it/)

A good read

When I installed a new panel in 2015, AM Solar was using VHB 4950 without screws. It seems like pretty durable stuff.

LD beds the solar panel's mounts in polyurethane and then screws the mounts to the roof, lastly coating the screws are in poly.
With either way of sealing, the roof is sealed.
I have seen AM Solar installations where the panels where screwed, along with the VHB tape, usually one screw per mount.

The only problem I see with VHB tape is LD's floating roof. The aluminum roofing is attached to the coach's roof only at the edges and where the hatches and antennas are screwed to the roof.
On hot summer days, the roof can expand so much that waves are visible and can be felt when walking on the roof.
With the solar panels only glued to the aluminum skin, and not attached to the sub-roof's plywood, they could bounce on bumpy roads.  Flexing aluminum is never good idea.

Larry

I talked with AM Solar a few months ago. We discussed mounting in detail. They told me they now screw the mounts to the roof of LD. I was convinced by how emphatic they were.

When I consider what Larry has just posted, I have visions of my solar panel waggling up and down in the wind as I drive along, finally taking flight and peeling my roof back like a time of sardines. Though I realize that has never happened, I like to dream up new ways to worry.

Bought my 89 TK 2 yrs ago - spent 1 1/2 yrs fixing and buffing and took off last Nov for full timing. Winter was in AZ and summer has been in Colorado. I use a Renogy "suitcase" type 100 watt with the 10 amp controller on the back - just spent 4 weeks on Madden Peak road in the "front" site with fab view of the valley. Did not fill either tank(gray and black) but came very very close. I used lights (all led), tv, water pump, computer, and everything. I have 2 Trojan T105's and never went below 12.48. Had sun everyday except for the last week. BTW, I am a single traveler and yes I did some of my "business" outside with the cows and deer. God I love my LD!! - AND my Renogy solar!

There are plenty of solar options, starting at less than $300. You don't need to permanently install anything on your older rig. Unless you do all your camping at places with electric hookups, it's hard to imagine why you wouldn't go solar.

I couldn't have said it better myself!   :)

Thanks, Andy Baird and NAVKCIR. I've been so focused on rooftop solar that I neglected other options like a suitcase set-up.  We now have a 100w  suitcase unit on the way from Renogy that should arrive tomorrow.  The order was just placed yesterday so that is very fast service.  This should give us plenty of time to test it before the Ladeze GTG in September.

Thanks, Andy Baird and NAVKCIR. I've been so focused on rooftop solar that I neglected other options like a suitcase set-up.  We now have a 100w  suitcase unit on the way from Renogy that should arrive tomorrow.  The order was just placed yesterday so that is very fast service.  This should give us plenty of time to test it before the Ladeze GTG in September.

"This should give us plenty of time to test it before the Ladeze GTG in September."
Jean, after the LaDeze GTG, please share your experience with the new solar panel suitcase.
Chris

"This should give us plenty of time to test it before the Ladeze GTG in September."
Jean, after the LaDeze GTG, please share your experience with the new solar panel suitcase.
Chris

Will do, Chris.  I hope we have a chance to test it before, maybe somewhere here in Nevada's high desert. Plenty of sun and lots of places to boondock.