When connecting/disconnecting shore power I have always made sure the switch in the power box is off, before plugging in. I am not sure why I always do this, other than to prevent arching. 8 of 10 times I find the switch in the ON position, so this is not a common practice. Is this much to do about nothing or is there a good reason to be cautious?
I also plug in with a 'Switch Off' condition for the very reason you stated.
However, I take another step prior to plugging my AC cable into an unknown outlet. I insert a polarity checker that I carry for just this purpose. You'd be surprised how many power posts you will find miswired or with arc burns from previous users. At one campground in Alaska I actually had to talk the young maintenance guy through the replacement of the entire outlet. ::)
The final step is to view my onboard surge protector for the proper readings and lack of error codes.
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
When connecting/disconnecting shore power I have always made sure the switch in the power box is off, before plugging in. I am not sure why I always do this, other than to prevent arching. 8 of 10 times I find the switch in the ON position, so this is not a common practice. Is this much to do about nothing or is there a good reason to be cautious?
Absolutely turn it off. Prevents arcing, surging - and if there is anything electrically wrong at the pedestal, prevents damage to LD electronics.
Chris
OK, good to know. I wondered if I was being overly cautious.
I have seen the black marks of arcing on the power panel.
I depend on the built in surge protector to detect and prevent current when there are faults such as reverse polarity, open ground, etc. Have to admit, we find fewer of these now than we did a decade back.
With a built-in surge protector, there is no problem plugging into shore power with or without the circuit being on.
The Progressive Industrie's EMS-HW30C is a popular suppressor, used by many us for years.
When first plugged in, the device analyzes the power for proper wiring and voltage before making the connection to the Power Center.
The operating conditions are shown on a remote display, including voltage, amperage, cycles and trouble codes, if any.
It is a totally brainless operation. If there is a problem, the protector will not connect the power or if a problem occurs, while being used, such as high or low voltage, it will disconnect the power until the proper voltage is restored.
Progressive Industries RV Surge and Electrical Protection industry lea (http://www.progressiveindustries.net/#!ems-hw30c/cuun)
Since no power passes through the device until the analysis is complete, there is no problem with flashing the plug's contact, as happens when the roof top A/C is turned on, at the time when the plug is inserted.
IMO, the EMS-HW30C surge protector is a recommended upgrade for all RVer that use shore power, especially in RV parks, where poor power is often encountered. One nice feature is its modular design that allows it to be easily repair, usually the surge protector part which can be burned out during a severe voltage spike or lightening strike.
Larry
All that you said in your last post is Gospel, Larry!
But as far as my actions and the intermediary step of checking the polarity comes from my pre-suppressor days when I didn't have the luxury of a device to do the troubleshooting for me. ;) Old habits die hard and my procedure still shortcuts the newer technology. 8) You cannot use too much caution!
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
We are real believers in a quality surge protector. The debate can be endless over which company makes a better surge protector.
Here is a rather good rundown on the whys and whatnots
RV Surge Guard Guide (http://www.dyersonline.com/electrical/power-protection/rv-surge-guard-guide.html)
And please don't let the price on the RV campground put you to sleep. I was in a resort type Rv campground near Disneyland. Cost per night was more then I'm willing to share. <smile> grandkids emotionally blackmailed me into it ...... but that a story for another day. The RV site pedestal was wired wrong on the 30 Amp side - open ground. I have to share and then help the licensed electrician correct the issue. He claim the city ok'd the hookup.
A comment on terminology (Yes, Lorna, another "red pen" moment! ;) ):
The label, "surge protector", can be misleading; a robust, high-quality EMS (Electrical Management System) provides far more protection to the RV's wiring than simply clamping down a "surge"/power spike. The less expensive products have limited functions; they may be "surge guards", but they're not an EMS.
The first link provides the specs and features of different brands' product lines. The second link provides the specs for the 30A EMS products (not relevant to the 30A LDs, but 50A EMS specs are on the same page), portable and hard-wired, from Progressive Industries. (My choice of manufacturer; YMMV.)
https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Articles.asp?ID=279
Progressive Industries RV Surge and Electrical Protection industry lea (http://www.progressiveindustries.net/#!ems-pt50c-read-more/chva)
PI products are sold through the native website and from other vendors, e.g., Tweety's, Best Converter, and others. Prices vary.
Don't hook up without it!
Larry Wade wrote With a built-in surge protector, there is no problem plugging into shore power with or without the circuit being on.
So since we had a PI surge protector installed three days after we picked up KoKo, I have been overly cautious all these years. So even if arcing happens when plugging into the pedestal, the protector would not allow any evil electrons to get past it. Cool!
"So even if arcing happens when plugging into the pedestal, the protector would not allow any evil electrons to get past it."
Even better than that: the Progressive Industries "energy management system" (as they call it) won't allow significant current to flow for a delay of fifteen seconds to two minutes (depending upon how a jumper is set) after it sees power at the shore end, so no arcing can occur. (Arcing can damage your plug and/or the receptacle.) It will also block power from getting through if the shore power socket is improperly wired, the line voltage is too low or too high, or the line frequency is not 60 Hz. It's an excellent protective system, as others have said.
Even with an EMS in the shore power circuit, I'd recommend making sure all high power draw devices are off to minimize any arcing on the contacts of the relay inside the EMS itself. Usually the A/C will delay a bit before the compressor tries to start, but other loads like electric heaters etc. should be off. When disconnecting, it is a good habit to shut most things down before pulling shore power. Same thing when starting the generator with shore power connected. If running high power devices, the transfer switch will likely arc its contacts when switching over to generator power (which usually has priority). Same thing when stopping the generator when connected to live shore power.
Just my $0.02,
Art
"I'd recommend making sure all high power draw devices are off to minimize any arcing on the contacts of the relay inside the EMS itself.
Excellent advice, Art.
We have a Surge Guard Model 34730, which may have been damaged during our recent trip. I would rather replace it with a permanent unit, since this one is hard to use when the power box is low to the ground. Where do you install the EMS-HW30C, which seems so popular, on a 2000 LD? The video shows it being attached to a wall on large RVs. The power plug on my unit, a 23 1/2 Twin-King, is in a small compartment behind and under the kitchen stove. I have to pull the cable out to attach to power.
Also, where do you place the remote unit? I wasn't even aware that the permanent ones could fit a small LD.
Seesaw: The EMS in my '04 Twin King is mounted on the wall inside the cabinet below the stove/oven. That makes it very close to the power inlet. But, I do need to get down by the floor to see its readout. That's OK by me as I am rarely connected to a power post.
The EMS-HW30C can be mounted anywhere that has direct access to the Power Center.
It requires requires two pieces of 12-2 romex cable, one from the transfer switch to the EMS, the other returning from the EMS to the 120-VAC breaker bus, located in the Power Center.
It has separate monitor, that shows the wiring condition, voltage, and amperage being consumed. It can be located in a easy to view location, connected the the EMS by telephone type-cord.
The convenience of a hard-wired EMS can't be beat, it's automatic, requires zero effort to use and does not need to be locked to the power post, to prevent someone from stealing it.
Larry
In our TK, the box went in the cabinet under the oven, and the display is just below the counter top next to the electrical outlet. It's already done its job for us when the park voltage suddenly dropped. AM Solar installed it for us along with the solar upgrade we did last September.
We like the convenience of the built-in protection. Nothing to wrangle in and out of the storage bins, nothing for light-fingered campers to steal, and the display is easy to see from the living area.
Hey, Chris or Anyone with a 30'--
Because your layout is similar to LDy Lulubelle (except bed config), if you have a permanent/hardwired EMS, where did you put the box/display? Thx
Lynne
Our display was installed on the cabinet wall above the converter and hidden by the fold down countertop piece.
Jim
Thx for the reply, Jim--
"Our display was installed on the cabinet wall above the converter and hidden by the fold down countertop piece."
I thought my converter was under the fridge/above the house batts (behind the short bottom drawer)...I thought I just had a fuse/breaker panel, at floor level, under the drop down shelf. So, if you're talking about under the drop down shelf, is the bulk of the box in the cabinet under the sink, on the lefthand side when the angled cabinet door is opened?
Lynne
That would be the Xantrex Inverter. The converter/power panel has the brown metal cover on the panel left side of the sink. Our EMS is installed under the sink as well.
Jim
Thx, Jim. My learning curve is still pretty steep. :-[ I'm still struggling with my "-verters" Ins- & Cons-
My head keeps saying that inverting something is turning it upside down (like Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster Pastafarians with their colanders on their heads), while converting something changes it to something else (like me leaving the Methodists to become a Pastafarian). ;D ...but at least I understand that AC & DC is not a heavy metal band! :D
Lynne
"My head keeps saying that inverting something is turning it upside down... while converting something changes it to something else"
And you're right. These names are confusing. Both devices convert: the "converter" changes 120 VAC to 12 VDC to charge your batteries and power your lights and such, while the "inverter" changes 12 VDC from your batteries to 120 VAC to power small household appliances, cell phone chargers and the like. (Although the latter are also available in 12 V versions that work more efficiently.)
Unfortunately, these mixed-up terms are in such widespread use in the RV industry that we're stuck with them.
Hi Lynne..I have a '98 IB [30fter], and mine is located to the right of the power center, between the last drawer under the counter, and next to the top of the large compartment that's under the stove ...works very well there...short run for the wiring, and I can see the display easily.
At 02:48 PM 7/30/2016, you wrote:
Hey, Chris or Anyone with a 30'--
Because your layout is similar to LDy Lulubelle (except bed config), if you have a permanent/hardwired EMS, where did you put the box/display? Thx Lynne
Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm
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Thanks to those who replied to my question. If I understood the installation video well enough, I just need to cut the existing power cable (or have it done for me), strip the wires and reconnect to the new surge protector in the right order, then screw it to the wall inside the cabinet. The display can be anywhere the cord will reach.
One last (I hope) question, since I am not sure my portable unit is fried, is there any safe way to test it without compromising my RV, before I invest in the new unit? I have a 30amp outlet at my house, which I know is reliable.
This thread has been so helpful, another example of why I find this forum the best! I have perhaps three weeks to do some last minute work on the LD before setting out on a journey of several months. I just re- prioritized my list and put the Progressive Industries EMS HW30c toward the top. We will probably need to plug in (no genny) to enjoy AC as we traverse the plains, Nevada, California. The discussion here convinces me that power protection needs to be a higher concern. It's now in my Amazon cart. Thank you everyone!
Hey, Chris or Anyone with a 30'--
Because your layout is similar to LDy Lulubelle (except bed config), if you have a permanent/hardwired EMS, where did you put the box/display? Thx
Lynne
Here is a photo of location of our display as I mentioned previously.
Jim