Yahoo Message Number: 158257 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/158257)
We have an 06 LD with some fogged windows. Speaking with Vince I know that they don't repair this and only replace. When I spoke with him he stressed the importance of properly sealing the window.
It is my understanding that in our rig they use butyl tape and as a result there is no requirement to re-seal windows as a maintenance item. I have spoken with two places that repair fogged windows. The first avoided answering my questions as to how they handle this. The second was familiar with the use of butyl tape and told me essentially that the tape remains on either the window and/or the frame when the window is removed and that when they re-install it fills the gaps. Does this sound right? Should they routinely replace the tape when removing the window?
Jim C
Yahoo Message Number: 158258 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/158258)
If butyl tape seems foreign to the shop, find another one.
The old tape can be difficult to remove, so maybe they don't want to do it. LD hates Eternabond for the same reason Removing the old butyl tape (not caulking), cleaning of both surfaces, and then application of new tape is the better method. You only want to do this once.
Let us know how this works out, we have a fogged window that needs repair.
Larry
Yahoo Message Number: 158259 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/158259)
I'm very interested to hear what you learn. I have one windows that has been fogged for a while and I noticed a few others starting to fog last fall.
I'm on the east coast (NC) and have considered 2 shops for repairs. One is the very popular SunCoast Designers in Florida. From everything I've read, they will just caulk around the opening and reinstall. The other is RV Glass Repair services in Greensboro, NC. They are much closer to me but I haven't read as much about them.
I've about resigned myself to either removing and reinstalling the windows myself or letting a shop reinstall with caulk and re-doing the job as soon as I get home.
I'm interested to hear about any experiences from those who have had foggy windows repaired in a LD.
Rich '03 MB in NC
Yahoo Message Number: 158260 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/158260)
"Let us know how this works out, we have a fogged window that needs repair." --- As do I, so I'm interested, too. The 2003 models were the first year for dual-pane windows; the sealant used shrank and developed hairline cracks and "crazes", allowing air to seep in and cloud the interior of the panes. Apparently, the sealant hadn't been improved for the 2006 models? Or even later?
There was a message board thread on this topic some time back; "fogged windows" in the "Search Conversations>Search Groups" bar will bring up several posts on the topic.
Linda Allen/Carole Sunlight, how is your factory-replaced rear window holding up? Fogging redux? Leaks?
Joan
Yahoo Message Number: 158261 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/158261)
We are original owners of an '05 MB LD in based in N. Florida and W NC and have had several fogged windows, including the great rear window dismantled, crispy cleaned, re-installed and sealed at Suncoast Glass in the small town of Hudson, Florida. You can hook up there for the night or two or or the most it takes for them to pull your foggy window, block space with cardboard, and reinstall one or several cleaned and resealed windows in one or two days at most. Very competent staff, secure full service "camping", and with a toad you can visit Wiki Watchi mermaid show nearby while you wait. It is a spot where you are surrounded by a dozen big rigs but the staff there are supportive of we small guys just as well. Jack L.
Yahoo Message Number: 158262 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/158262)
Does Suncoast Glass have a far western branch?
Yahoo Message Number: 158264 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/158264)
We are currently in Quartzsite. The company that I was tempted to use is here, but just for the show, and they are Havasu Auto Glass. There is a yelp review from 2/15 where an RV owner had them do his windows and he was very happy. That said, I would guess he just had caulking done and may not have had butyl tape to begin with.
Two of the windows aren't bad and one is in the bedroom in our Island Bed so not much of an issue. However the other two are in the living room windows and I am only willing to put up with a little fogging. After all, that is one of the reasons I bought an LD, the views.
The alternative is complete window replacement at around $1,000 a pop.
Suncoast Design near Tampa is one I have heard good things about but if they aren't going back with BT I wouldn't use them. Besides I have no plans to go back to Florida anytime soon.
Obviously, Havasu Auto Glass wants me to believe that the seal will continue to be good despite their removing and re-installing. I don't think I'm comfortable with that.
There is another place here and I will probably talk to them tomorrow. If I find a solution short of replacement will let you know.
Jim C
Yahoo Message Number: 158265 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/158265)
Jack, if you would care to share repair cost figures, it might help those who are trying to decide to have their foggy windows fixed.
Chris
Yahoo Message Number: 158267 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/158267)
I can't remember the name of the glass/window company near the Mothership, the one they recommend. Has anyone checked with them to see if they repair foggy windows? I had a cracked window replaced there some years back.
Chris
Yahoo Message Number: 158269 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/158269)
"can't remember the name of the glass/window company near the Mothership, the one they recommend. Has anyone checked with them to see if they repair foggy windows?"
Chris
I think this is the place.
http://nagcoglass.com/home/contact.html (http://nagcoglass.com/home/contact.html)
Larry
Yahoo Message Number: 158271 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/158271)
"... how is your factory-replaced rear window holding up? Fogging redux? Leaks?"
Wow, thanks Joan, I'd forgotten all about that. Yes, after the factory replacement for the fogged rear window, we had a leak in a Texas deluge. Vince injected some sealant in March on our way home. So far, so good. No sign of intrusion from our 18+ inches of rain this season. Now I'll depend on you to remind me periodically to check for it! Linda
Yahoo Message Number: 158278 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/158278)
Re: cost and durability of refreshed windows-
As a follow up - We had the large rear window done at Suncoast glass two years ago at a cost of about $250 and a year ago had two smaller side ones for a cost each of about $250. That is just the way they do it, perhaps because much of the delicate work is in the removal and reinstallation and re sealing. With "the proof is in the pudding" valuation I note that we have been from sea level to 6000 ft in elevation and from temperatures from the teens to the 90's, over some bumpy roads and all the windows that were redone are sparkling as new. Jack
Yahoo Message Number: 160004 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/160004)
Update on the search for a fogged glass solution. First, I called Nagco Glass and learned that they haven't done the glass in LD after the 2003 model and they don't repair fogged windows.
I contacted this place. RV Glass Solutions, Motorhome Side Window Repair (http://www.rvglassexperts.com/side_windows.html)
They are located in Coburg, OR. I spoke with the folks there and they repair the fogged windows for $325 per window for the sliding glass and if the fixed piece is also fogged it is an additional $105. They have been doing this type of work for about 4 years now. When re-installing they use a foam tape to re-seal, not butyl tape. Not sure if that is a problem or not. She mentioned that they have done a few Lazy Daze units but not a lot and she clearly knew the rig because she commented on their retro appearance.
They also can replace the glass with a laminated glass which eliminates the air gap and should prevent future fogging. However, she asked if we had very dark glass and said that while they are working on sourcing the darker glass they don't have it yet. They hope to have it this summer and might have it in June when we plan on being there. At this point I think I would prefer thicker glass without the air gap. The cost of going back with the laminated glass is the same for repairing the existing glass.
Has anyone here had fogged glass repaired by them?
Any thoughts about the foam tape? When I asked what it was exactly I was told it is foam tape that is sticky on one side. I asked if they do anything else to prevent water intrusion and the reply was that if the windows were originally sealed with silicone they would replace that as well. I don't know if our 06 has any additional sealant but if they do it would not be silicone.
So, at this point, not sure what to do regarding this outfit.
Jim C
Yahoo Message Number: 160006 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/160006)
Jim, thanks for this information. I have been debating on what, if anything, to do about the fogged rear window on my 2003 TK. 2003 was the first year for dual-pane windows in the LD, and the sealant used to join the panes has not held up; it has "hardened", shrunken, and developed hairline cracks over the years. Of course, even the most minuscule breach in the sealant allows air and moisture to enter; the window doesn't leak, but the haze that develops is not repairable, and it sure compromises the view!
The only viable solution that I've entertained so far is having the rear window replaced at the factory; this is still an option, of course, but, like you, I hope that and LD owner who has had their foggy windows replaced by the company in your post will respond with their experiences!
Joan
Yahoo Message Number: 160007 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/160007)
I just retired from Anderson windows, pretty much known nation wide for home windows. If the LD windows, 2pane and having a vacuum drawn between the 2 panes, for insulation purposes, not sure if they put any type of gas in to give better insulation value, is anything like your houses windows, it has lost it's seal and ambient air has entered the airspace between the 2 panes and fogs w/temperature change, just speculation on my part because I am not familiar w/LD windows.
Yahoo Message Number: 160009 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/160009)
That tape is what should be used to seal the vacuum drawn between the 2 pieces of glass and really, as far as I know, has nothing to do w/the sealing of the "window" against water infiltration and should stay w/the piece of glass when it comes out and will be on a new piece of insulated glass if it is installed. Again , speculation on my part as to windows used by LD.
Yahoo Message Number: 160010 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/160010)
My 2003 LD has a fogged slider. In the afternoon sun, it looks to be very dirty, even when spotless.
Thermal changes power the flow of air through the leaking gasket, allowing water vapor and dust to be drawn into the interior of the two panes.
Last year, at Q, there was an shop that rebuilds the dual pane windows I stopped and was told it would be about $500 to do the complete window, so the Oregon place seems to be in line.
$420 to rejuvenate a whole window is a lot cheaper than a new one. If it last another 10 years, I would pleased.
They remove the window and take each dual pane apart for cleaning and polishing. They then replace the rubber gasket, pull a vacuum and, believe, fill it with some type of gas, before reassembly. The process supposedly take about 24 hours.
I too am interested in getting ours fixed.
Larry
Yahoo Message Number: 160012 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/160012)
Joan, I thought that the film that seems to develop over time can be cleaned when they separate the glass pieces and then re-assemble. At least, that is what I have gathered from looking it up online.
In our case you really only see this at certain times of the day when the sunlight hits it right.
I should add that I was told to measure the thickness of the window and if it is 7/16" they can replace with the laminate. Measured ours and it is solidly 1/2" so that doesn't sound like it will work even if they get a matching dark tint.
Jim C
Yahoo Message Number: 160016 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/160016)
"....having a vacuum drawn between the 2 panes, for insulation purposes, not sure if they put any type of gas in to give better insulation value..."
There is no gas that would insulate better than a vacuum. However, a vacuum would be unstable, since even molecular migration through the glass and seals would eliminate it eventually. The most stable solution would be a very dry gas to equalize pressure, and Nitrogen would seem the most likely.
Steve
Yahoo Message Number: 160017 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/160017)
Argon gas is used in Home windows, the density of it slows down the Heat/Cold molecules as they pas threw the vacuum/dead air space and yes it will dissipate over a period of time or so they say. For the most part, to technical for me to understand, I was just a service tech.bseg
I would like to have our windows de-fogged. Not considering it a DIY project as I don't have a helper.
This is a dialog with RV Fog Doctor (http://www.rvfogdr.com/) in Searcy, Arkansas.
I have no idea what a "hot system" for sealing the windows is and how it would compare with Larry's preferred use of butyl tape.
It starts with my note to them.
Hi,
What materials do you use to re-seal the windows?
How much lead time would you need to make an appointment in mid to late October?
Thanks
Thank you for your interest in our company. We use a hot system for sealing the windows.
The lead time for making an appointment mid to late October is a week and a half to two weeks.
The average cost of repair for your windows (per frame) is $300 for driver’s window and $200 for all the other windows, if you don’t have to have any glass replaced. There is a possibility that the glass has etched if it has had moisture in it for too long. If you do need glass, you can figure around $100 more per piece of glass replaced. If we do not have your glass in stock, we will make a pattern and have it sent out to our tempering company and that usually takes up to four weeks to get back to us.
The average repair takes approximately 2 to 4 hours per frame. We do have full service hook up for your coach with 50 (only) amp service. You could stay in your coach, if you wanted to, while the windows are being repaired.
We do have 9.50% sales tax. We accept personal checks and MasterCard, Discover, and VISA; and there is a 3% surcharge for credit cards.
Take Care,
Cheryl
I have no idea what a hot system is. I take it that it rules out the use of butyl tape, which would be my preference.
We have found that the hot melt system works the best for us.
The average cost of repair for your windows (per frame) is $300 for driver’s window and $200 for all the other windows,
OK, you really lost me here. I don’t have a driver’s window. It’s a Class C, a Lazy Daze to be specific, with Hehr double pane windows.
I apologize, you didn't specify what type of vehicle you had and I assumed (we know what that means :) ) you had a Class A. What year is your Lazy Daze? We repair by frame, so usually the stationary and slider comes out together and is considered one frame. Which means most, if not all, of your windows will be $200 + tax, if you do not need glass. If you have a window that needs to be repaired and the window if over 55 inches, the pricing might change to $300 + tax.
If we do not have your glass in stock, we will make a pattern and have it sent out to our tempering company and that usually takes up to four weeks to get back to us.
That would be a deal breaker for us, spending 4 weeks there. Unless you are cooking for us. Grin
Normally, we would take a pattern and have it sent out...most customers would leave and on their return trip stop by for us to put their replacement glass in. We do not charge to take the glass out again, however, you would pay the $100 per piece of glass replaced + tax.
Hope this helps a bit...
Cheryl
I would like to have our windows de-fogged. Not considering it a DIY project as I don't have a helper.
This is a dialog with RV Fog Doctor (http://www.rvfogdr.com/) in Searcy, Arkansas.
I have no idea what a "hot system" for sealing the windows is and how it would compare with Larry's preferred use of butyl tape.
It starts with my note to them.
Hi,
What materials do you use to re-seal the windows?
How much lead time would you need to make an appointment in mid to late October?
Thanks
Thank you for your interest in our company. We use a hot system for sealing the windows.
The lead time for making an appointment mid to late October is a week and a half to two weeks.
The average cost of repair for your windows (per frame) is $300 for driver’s window and $200 for all the other windows, if you don’t have to have any glass replaced. There is a possibility that the glass has etched if it has had moisture in it for too long. If you do need glass, you can figure around $100 more per piece of glass replaced. If we do not have your glass in stock, we will make a pattern and have it sent out to our tempering company and that usually takes up to four weeks to get back to us.
The average repair takes approximately 2 to 4 hours per frame. We do have full service hook up for your coach with 50 (only) amp service. You could stay in your coach, if you wanted to, while the windows are being repaired.
We do have 9.50% sales tax. We accept personal checks and MasterCard, Discover, and VISA; and there is a 3% surcharge for credit cards.
Take Care,
Cheryl
I have no idea what a hot system is. I take it that it rules out the use of butyl tape, which would be my preference.
We have found that the hot melt system works the best for us.
The average cost of repair for your windows (per frame) is $300 for driver’s window and $200 for all the other windows,
OK, you really lost me here. I don’t have a driver’s window. It’s a Class C, a Lazy Daze to be specific, with Hehr double pane windows.
I apologize, you didn't specify what type of vehicle you had and I assumed (we know what that means :) ) you had a Class A. What year is your Lazy Daze? We repair by frame, so usually the stationary and slider comes out together and is considered one frame. Which means most, if not all, of your windows will be $200 + tax, if you do not need glass. If you have a window that needs to be repaired and the window if over 55 inches, the pricing might change to $300 + tax.
If we do not have your glass in stock, we will make a pattern and have it sent out to our tempering company and that usually takes up to four weeks to get back to us.
That would be a deal breaker for us, spending 4 weeks there. Unless you are cooking for us. Grin
Normally, we would take a pattern and have it sent out...most customers would leave and on their return trip stop by for us to put their replacement glass in. We do not charge to take the glass out again, however, you would pay the $100 per piece of glass replaced + tax.
Hope this helps a bit...
Cheryl
Don, I think the hot seal he is referring to could be the seal that they are installing between the two panes of glass and not sealing the window frame to the body of the coach.
Jim
No matter what tape is used to reseal the window, the gap around the edge, of each window, can be taped and then caulked with long lasting polyurethane. I recommend this to all who own older LDs.
Window and seam sealing | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157671788034655/)
The tape method produces a thin, clean line of sealant.
Seal the top and sides of the windows, leaving the bottom open to allow any water that does get in, to drain and not be trapped.
Preparation is everything in this procedure, so take your time. You only want to do it once.
Larry
????? Methinks there's a whole lot more than foggy windows involved here! ::)
I just stumbled on this video. Comments?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IhB71wJGRw
The video and the website mention only the replacement of "side" windows, but I will call this company tomorrow and see what, if any, options there are for replacing the large back window in the TK or MB.
I would much rather have the laminated safety glass in place of the "air gap" sandwich! I will post whatever I find out, and, if others call, do post what you find out!
The video and the website mention only the replacement of "side" windows, but I will call this company tomorrow and see what, if any, options there are for replacing the large back window in the TK or MB.
I would much rather have the laminated safety glass in place of the "air gap" sandwich! I will post whatever I find out, and, if others call, do post what you find out!
I look forward to what you find out. When I spoke with them several months ago they were hoping to have dark glass but even then I have no idea if it would come close to matching the darkness of the glass that we have in the LD. They have a location in Phoenix and we were planning on checking them when we get there in a little over a month.
Jim
I called RV Glass Experts and gave the person the fogged window information for my TK, including asking about their website ad that they replaced "side windows"; she said that "back windows" are considered "side windows", too; OK. I asked whether they could replace the window, and, if so, at which facility and for how much? She looked up Lazy Daze and answered that the Coburg, Oregon location could replace the (rear window) fogged "air gap" glass with laminated safety glass for $535.00, "start to finish". (She did not give a price for the Phoenix, AZ, location, but I am pretty sure that Oregon would be less expensive due to no sales tax.) This is roughly half of the LD factory replacement price.
RV Glass Experts does not replace the window frame, just the glass with 7/16" laminated safety glass. (AFAIK, the factory removes the whole window unit and fits a new air gap window in its place.) I don't know if the glass is tinted; I forgot to ask that! I wish I'd known this information when I was in Oregon in August! :(
I inquired only about replacing the large rear window of the TK; the window in an MB is the same, so the same information and costs would apply.
Considering the options.....
RV Fog Doctor - first post in this thread - only cleans, does not replace the window, unless it's etched.
Not sure I see a benefit of safety glass for this use. Of course, the Hehr windows could use safety glass for all I know.
Definitely would want the same tint.
What sealing method does RV Glass Experts use?
I used the Fog Dr on my '06 MB. Would I recommend them...without a doubt. Was I happy with the outcome....without a doubt. would I do it with a LD....I'd have to think about it.
My LD had been assembled with sealant like 3M 5200 everywhere. Hinges, screws AND windows. I ( and they) thought they were gonna tear up the window getting it out. They did succeed, with a few wrinkles in the frame. They did their best, with very good results, to straighten the frame, but it took them ALL day. We went with intention of having the back window, 2 rear sides, and the door window on the MB. We, and they, decided after the experience with the back window ( I was very happy with the end results ) that we would not attempt the rest of the project.
I used the Fog Dr on my '06 MB. Would I recommend them...without a doubt. Was I happy with the outcome....without a doubt. would I do it with a LD....I'd have to think about it.
My LD had been assembled with sealant like 3M 5200 everywhere. Hinges, screws AND windows. I ( and they) thought they were gonna tear up the window getting it out. They did succeed, with a few wrinkles in the frame. They did their best, with very good results, to straighten the frame, but it took them ALL day. We went with intention of having the back window, 2 rear sides, and the door window on the MB. We, and they, decided after the experience with the back window ( I was very happy with the end results ) that we would not attempt the rest of the project.
That news is disturbing. I was under the impression that LD was sealing the windows with butyl tape.
Jim
"I was under the impression that LD was sealing the windows with butyl tape."
-----
I don't know what the factory used to seal the window frames into the body in 2003, but I suspect that the sealant used at that time was the same as was used everywhere else on/in the LD, i.e., lots and lots of gobs and wads of polyurethane. I'm sure I will find out when they replace the TK's rear window later this month. (Going with the factory-replacement option rather than the glass re-do in Oregon.)
Frankly, since the goal is to have a leak-free, unfogged window that doesn't present a view like looking through wax paper, my concern deals a lot more with what the factory uses currently to seal a window replacement and the quality of the sealant between the panes in the new window stock.
Joan
"I was under the impression that LD was sealing the windows with butyl tape."
-----
I don't know what the factory used to seal the window frames into the body in 2003, but I suspect that the sealant used at that time was the same as was used everywhere else on/in the LD, i.e., lots and lots of gobs and wads of polyurethane. I'm sure I will find out when they replace the TK's rear window later this month. (Going with the factory-replacement option rather than the glass re-do in Oregon.)
Frankly, since the goal is to have a leak-free, unfogged window that doesn't present a view like looking through wax paper, my concern deals a lot more with what the factory uses currently to seal a window replacement and the quality of the sealant between the panes in the new window stock.
Joan
We have an 06. In speaking with Vince he told me that they used butyl tape and that there was no need to routinely re-seal the windows. I'm guessing that they use something else on the exterior of the frame but don't know if that is true. Perhaps it's the stuff riverrd was referring to. However, that has nothing to do with the fogged windows so we still have the problem or removing and reinstalling. I hated to hear about the problems the other riverrd commented on as I don't look forward to the process given his experience.
In another thread on this topic someone commented that they had LD replace the entire window due to fogging and that window subsequently leaked. Apparently no matter who does the work there is always the risk of this happening.
Jim
I just called Vince and asked what they use to seal the window frame into the "hole" when they install or replace a window; he said they use this:
Loctite PL S40 Window Door and Siding Sealant from Loctite Adhesives (http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/pl_seal_dws/overview/Loctite-PL-S40-Polyurethane-Window-Door-and-Siding-Sealant.htm)
He said nothing about using butyl tape.
I re-sealed all the tops and sides of all the window frames on my 2003 with 3M 5200 Fast Cure, and will do the same with the new rear window.
Joan
I just called Vince and asked what they use to seal the window frame into the "hole" when they install or replace a window; he said they use this:
Loctite PL S40 Window Door and Siding Sealant from Loctite Adhesives (http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/pl_seal_dws/overview/Loctite-PL-S40-Polyurethane-Window-Door-and-Siding-Sealant.htm)
He said nothing about using butyl tape.
I re-sealed all the tops and sides of all the window frames on my 2003 with 3M 5200 Fast Cure, and will do the same with the new rear window.
Joan
Thanks for checking. Perhaps I am confusing this with something I read on the group here. I did speak with him a few months ago when he quoted the price for replacing the windows and I thought he had mentioned the butyl then as well but I must have been wrong about that recollection.
Jim
"I thought he had mentioned the butyl then as well but I must have been wrong about that recollection."
-----
Not necessarily! Vince answers direct questions, but, in my experience, usually doesn't volunteer additional information, probably because he's usually running at red line and needs to get back to whatever he was called away from to answer the phone for the bazillionth time! ;) They may well use butyl tape used around the edges of the window frame; I'll know soon.
Joan
"...I'm sure I will find out when they replace the TK's rear window later this month. (Going with the factory-replacement option rather than the glass re-do in Oregon)..."
I was curious about your choice in this regard, Joan.
Many of us who live close to the Mothership may find service and repair at the factory our best option. Especially when you consider their extensive knowledge of the
product.
In the "old" days, electricians would wire a home using all black wires. This was done, from what I understand, to insure that the homeowner/business owner would call
them for any electrical issues or risk burning down their property by bringing someone else in to do an electrical repair. Glad those daze are gone.
Lazy Daze owners are spread across the country and while our rigs are definitely unique in many ways, repairs can be accomplished by many talented DIY'ers and RV technicians.
The factory is not always an absolute must for many repairs, although, they most liking are the most competent.
Old school craftsmanship and a friendly team of professionals. It's good to know these qualities still exist. I wonder if management planned it that way?
Kent
I'm certainly aware that the factory is not "the only game in town" when it comes to repairing an LD; very little of anything I've had done post-purchase in 2003 has taken me back to Montclair. But, in this case, factory window replacement vs. SOB company window replacement was decided for these reasons: Montclair is a lot closer to me in the Bay Area than Coburg, OR, it's a convenient off-the-10 freeway stop on the way to somewhere else I plan to go, and I had already made an appointment at the factory and arranged the trip timing to have two other jobs done there. If I had known about the glass place while I was in Oregon a couple of months ago, I probably would have had the place in Coburg do the job (after verifying that the tint of the replacement glass was the same or similar). That was then; this is now. Southward..... ;)
Joan
I am curious what the Mothership is charging to replace on the large windows. I am sure their work would be better than anywhere else, but they are sure are not convenient to us. And they are experienced at removing what they put in. Thinking company x might damage something getting a window out - maybe me!
Need three big ones and the door. Arg!
Maybe they could replace the damn sink drains also!
Should have ordered a new one five years ago.
"...Need three big ones and the door. Arg!..."
Don,
I recall it being mentioned that the replacement cost of single pain Windows done in Oregon was around $600 and LD's replacement for double pain smoked was around $1200. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The coach door runs around $3500 or thereabouts. This I was told by Vince last March. That's the raw door, finished at the factory and installed. I learned this after I snagged a trailer hitch at U-Haul while getting propane. The repair for my
blindside was about $325 (if I recall-I'm trying to forget it).
The repair? Flawless. Vince said he couldn't let me take the new LD out looking like that. Thanks Vince.
Here's a before and after shot. You'd never know it happened.
As a side note: The factory may be able to lead you to a local window repair service in your area.
Good luck with your coach
Kent
$1,200 is a lot and I am cheap with a nine year old rig. I meant the window in the door, not the whole door.
It might be worth calling the factory and asking Vince for the estimated costs of various window replacements; the cost to replace the large back window of the TK or MB may be different from the replacement costs of "side" windows.
Each job is different, of course, and cost-affecting "stuff" can happen during parts removal and installation. Since my rig will be getting a new awning, side window shade, and a back window replacement, I don't know what the final tab will be.
Choosing to have these jobs done on an "older" rig is a personal decision, of course, but this is my last rig; it gets what it (and I) need(s) to "goseedo" safely and comfortably.
As ever, YMMV. :D
I asked LD what the tariff would be to replace five windows.
Both side windows in the rear lounge.
The window next to the kitchen table.
The window in the door.
The small window on the drivers side in the rear.
Windows $ 3208.00
est. Labor ( Vince ) $1350.00
$4,500 is about 10% of the value of the rig.
Update: RV Fog Doctor in Searcy, Arkansas will not work on a Lazy Daze as they know what a PIA it is to get the window out.
Well, I'm real glad that I just have one to replace! :o
This fogged window issue is very concerning to me, so two questions: Is this just an LD problem or do other brands have this problem as well? Do all modern-day LD's experience this issue? ???
Fogged windows are not just an "LD problem"; I've read of quite a few different types, different brands, of RVs having the same issues.
Joan
This fogged window issue is very concerning to me, so two questions: Is this just an LD problem or do other brands have this problem as well? Do all modern-day LD's experience this issue? ???
The "issue" lies in the fact that LD and other manufacturers started installing double-paned insulating glass some years ago (~2003?). LD buys the glass (already sealed), just like the other RV builders, and installs it. It's the seal between the two panes that starts to leak over time and creates the fogging. Older LDs and SOBs, which had single pane windows, don't have this issue. -- Jon
Yes, 2003 was the first year that LD installed dual pane windows; I waited to order my TK until LD put the short rig on the E-450 chassis and used double pane windows. 50% right! :o
NB - dual pane windows used in residential and commercial construction can also be subject to fogging; the problem does not affect just RVs.
Joan
The quest to get the windows un-fogged continues. I have been talking with Suncoast Designs (http://suncoastdesigners.com/) in Florida about it. They quote $225 a window to clean them. They say they have done over four LD's before.
If the window is etched, they will replace it for an additional $50. They stock several tinted glasses.
I am planning to go down there after the first of the year.
Suncoast Designers, Inc.
15050 Labor Place
Hudson, FL 34667
727-868-2773
Here's a Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXoaxTffgFo) on them.
2003 TK Rear Window Replacement Update:
Just an FYI: I'm offering information on my experience because some owners have indicated an interest in the options for replacing fogged windows. The information provided reflects only my particular job(s); your costs and experience may be different.
The rear window on my 2003 TK was replaced at the factory on October 22. The cost of the window itself was $845.00; gasket and sealant were charged separately. Because I had additional work done, i.e., a new awning and three interior shades, labor charges ($90.00 per hour) were inclusive for all jobs, so I can't say what the specific charge was for installing just the window.
The window was sealed in with two tubes (per the billing) of Loctite PL S40; Vince (and Todd) reiterated that they have never used butyl tape to seat/seal the windows. I still have to do a bit of "clean up" of the old sealant residue around the window and re-seal around the frame; they did run a bead of Loctite around the frame, but it needs tidying up! ;) I will clean off any remaining residue, tape off the frame and surrounding surfaces and bead with 5200. (Will also re-check the weep holes to make sure that the new window doesn't have any "stuff" to block water outflow.)
Note: Vince reported a very slight amount of rust on one screw that was removed from the plastic shade string "holder"; the screw penetrates into the back wall. (Increased heart rate resulted from that information!) Thankfully, there was no water damage when the window was removed; I doubted there would be, but one never knows!
It will be interesting to hear of others' experiences with window replacements at the factory and/or from replacements and/or "de-fogging" done by other businesses; please post if you have this job done. Thank you.
Joan
2003 TK Rear Window Replacement Update:
The rear window on my 2003 TK was replaced at the factory on October 22. The cost of the window itself was $845.00; gasket and sealant were charged separately. Because I had additional work done, i.e., a new awning and three interior shades, labor charges ($90.00 per hour) were inclusive for all jobs, so I can't say what the specific charge was for installing just the window.
Joan
That price is consistent with what Vince quoted me on our three windows several months ago. He stated that they figure 3 hours per window for labor. His total ballpark cost was $1,100 per window.
Coincidentally, we are sitting at the Phoenix location of RV Glass Solutions. Their main location is in Coburg, OR. RV Glass Solutions, Motorhome Side Window Repair (http://www.rvglassexperts.com/side_windows.html)
We are having those three windows repaired today. They also offer replacement with either insulated glass or laminated glass. We looked at a sample of the laminated glass and don't think it is as dark as the glass used by LD. They claim that the laminated glass would add about 5 pounds of weight per glass piece. However, only the Coburg location cuts new glass.
Cost to repair is $325 per window. The work is guaranteed for 2 years.
Jim
Jim, please report your experience with the Phoenix shop repair; thanks.
Joan
Jim, please report your experience with the Phoenix shop repair; thanks.
Joan
Will do. I can say this much. The facility looks good and they have a secure lot with three 50 amp hookups. We arrived last night.
They have just removed the first window in the living room and it was not installed with butyl tape but used double adhesive foam tape and then a bead of caulk around the outside edge. Based on my contact with various repair shops double sticky foam tape appears to be the standard. You can see an installation here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MuVSRpjGCA
No sign of water intrusion on the first one, at least.
I will follow up with a comment once finished. Of course, only time will tell how long the repair will last. My guess would be that they should hold up as well as the original.
Jim
Are there anymore pictures of the replacement other than the one posted on the blog?
Are there anymore pictures of the replacement other than the one posted on the blog?
Attaching what I have.
It took all day to finish the job with two working on it. They used a black polyurethane sealant/adhesive completely around the circumference after installation. The windows look great and as an added bonus they are incredibly easy to open and close now. I can only assume that was from a cleaning of the interior of the frame.
Total cost was $975 so no additional charges for materials.
Now only time will tell how long the re-sealing will hold up.
Not sure that the other photos will tell you anything helpful.
Jim
Did they remove the blinds and valences or did you have to do that?
Did they remove the blinds and valences or did you have to do that?
They did everything.
Thank you for all the helpful information and pictures.
Bob
I will post details later, but I felt I needed to advise any LD owners to not use Suncoast Designers in Hudson, FL
They bent the frames prying them out of the Loctite sealant the Mothership uses. The frames were hammered back into shape. Perhaps they will be OK.
The painter's tape used pulled off the paint in two places. It also removed a bit of paint from the Huer frames.
The General Manager attributed the paint removal to a poor paint job and shoddily built RV.
The upside is the windows are clean.
"I will post details later, but I felt I needed to advise any LD owners to not use Suncoast Designers in Hudson, FL
They bent the frames prying them out of the Loctite sealant the Mothership uses. The frames were hammered back into shape. Perhaps they will be OK.
The painter's tape used pulled off the paint in two places. It also removed a bit of paint from the Huer frames.
The General Manager attributed the paint removal to a poor paint job and shoddily built RV.
The upside is the windows are clean."
Don, sorry to learn of your bad experience. But thank you for the candid report.
Steve K.
I have posted to The Companion (http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/2017/03/fogged-windows.html) our experience with Suncoast Designers of Hudson, Florida.
If you have had your windows de-fogged by anyone, please post your review here.
I was leery of having a window "de-fogging" done and instead had the factory replace the rear window; the report of this experience makes me glad that I did! :o
I understand that access to the factory is not at all convenient for many owners, and window replacement is definitely more expensive that the de-fogging prices that I've read. Hopefully, others have had more positive experiences with a "de-fogging" job on their LDs?
Don, thank you for posting this. I am sorry you had such a bad experience getting your windows serviced. And even worse getting any satisfaction from the owner of the company.
Can I ask you how you decided to use this company? Are you going to have them try again on the window that has already leaked?
I would have no confidence that the windows were reinstalled properly.
Good luck,
Steve K
I posted our experience with photos here. Fogged Windows (http://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=29207.25)
Four months later we have been through plenty of rain with no sign of leaks. There was no damage to frames and we were happy with our experience.
Jim
Good deal Jim. I sure wish I had recalled your post. I pasted together your several posts here and added it The Companion (http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/2017/03/fogged-windows-repair-at-rv-glass.html).
Also "discovered" another article (http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/2011/02/windows.html) in The Companion labeled foggy windows that discusses a lot of window topics. It's now labeled Fogged Windows and Windows.
It's worth mentioning that the factory sealing method described by others did not match the way ours was done. Our windows were almost welded in with Loctite.
Still hoping that someone who has had their windows defogged would post about their experience.
This window was fogged worse two days after leaving Suncoast than before they touched it.
Now after two months it looks like this.
Planning to have another firm re-do it.
If you head anywhere near Coburg, OR you should check the company we used.
Jim
I was planning using their Phoenix location. It's as much out of our way as is their Oregon location.
You have a preference?
I was planning using their Phoenix location. It's as much out of our way as is their Oregon location.
You have a preference?
Nope, I was guessing you wouldn't be going near Phoenix. However, if you wanted to try their solid piece of glass as a replacement the glass is cut at the Coburg main location. They can do it in Phoenix but it has to be cut and shipped to them.
Jim
Quite tardy on posting this, but we used RV Glass Solutions (http://www.rvglassexperts.com/side_windows.html) Phoenix location to defogged a window. Very pleased with their work. A new window might be the best choice, but this option costs 1/5 as much. They spent 4 hours on one window. Suncoast spent the same amount of time on five windows.
Their main location is in Coburg, OR.
I will chime in again to say that our windows are still doing fine since the repair on 11/8.
Jim
Any advice on how to get a smaller side window replaced in Albuquerque? It's cracked.
I love my Lazy Daze. I just dewinterized it and some of my neighbors came out to help and offer advice ( we have an RV storage site attached to my community) ... Because it is so cute!
My first thought would be to contact local glass dealers and see if you can get a close match.
My second thought would be to contact
RV GLASS SOLUTIONS
91302 N COBURG INDUSTRIAL WAY
COBURG, OR 97408
541-393-5895
They can cut glass to any size. They have a place in Phoenix that can measure and install it.
Thank you will do!
I'm guessing it would need to be tempered, too?
Chip
I recently found that I have 3 or 4 of the dreaded foggy windows in my 2006 RB. I've read everything I can find on our forum related to this problem and have two questions. 1. It seems that it's extremely difficult to get the windows out of a Lazy Daze, even though they are installed with double sided foam tape. Is that because the windows are caulked after installation with 5200 or similar sealant? 2. Is it possible to replace the damaged dual pane windows with single pane glass? I'm afraid of a reoccurance of the fog with new dual pane windows. Have any of you done this? Thanks!
We have a 2006 IB. And have/had two fogged sliders in the living room. We had them repaired at RV Glass Coburg Or location. The place is huge. Used to be the Newmar factory.
To answer your specific questions against our experience and perhaps what LD did with Windows in 2006.
The window and its frame comes off. To do this one unscrews from inside. Then finds a buddy to help haul it away after much gentle prying to get the exterior frame to release from the overspray of paint and the inevitable adhesion of the foam rubber to the frame over time in the elements. It is not double sided nor is it caulked with 5200 unless you have it done elsewhere.
Replacing the window with their replacement glass is not possible. The window thicknesses are of different dimension.
They use brand new screws painted black ahead of time to reinstall it. They use one sided foam as per original installation.
The official policy is to kick the customer out while they work. But since we have a cat and it was really hot they gave us a 110 feed and the bay is shaded. I stayed in the coach and watched.
Two windows took all day. One of ours is not warranted. One of the panes was warped from all four corners into the center. So we had them swap the frames and Windows side to side. We open one window a great deal less than the other. We did this because the theory being less stress on window makes seal last longer.
The sealed Windows look wonderful. The seals themselves look a bit more robust than the original method. This part is hard to describe. It's as if the old seals were inset further into the window sandwich with nothing to keep it there. The new ones have the rubber isolator and has a liberal amount of silicon material around the exterior edge.
They do not replace anything else in the process to my Dissappointment. The exterior shrinking rubber I would love to replace but they couldn't.One would think this would be a popular service request. (However I saw way more class A in the stalls, making us look puny, all with window types different than ours) So I will be on the hunt for that. Once we get home.
From Oak Harbor
Lydia
Regarding replacing the window. I stand corrected. It has to be preordered ahead of time. I can't tell you about how the color would differ since they didn't have the correct thickness to view.
Pays to talk to the other half first. 😀
We had ours done by the same company as Lydia but at their Phoenix location. We had three windows done and it took all day. Nothing was damaged in the process and we were happy with their work. We parked the night before and the night of the job in their lot and they had electric hookups for the rig. They used a black polyurethane sealant around the window frames after installation and foam tape which secured the window to the exterior.
We looked at the solid glass replacement and as best we could tell the color was not a match. However, we couldn't be sure how close since we couldn't see an actual panel installed in the rig for comparison.
You get a 2-year warranty on their work. I have no idea how long it will last.
Lydia, we bought the rubber gasket for the exterior of the window frame from the LD factory but, of course, with time it shrinks as it ages, just like me.
Jim
"The exterior shrinking rubber I would love to replace but they couldn't. One would think this would be a popular service request..... So I will be on the hunt for that. "
---
No hunting needed; go here. ;)
http://www.rvwindow.com/Motorhome_Product_Details.aspx?ProductID=6710&Return=197
Thank you! I'm leaning towards going to the Phoenix location to have my glass resealed.
Joan
Thanks for finding that little number. Nice resource.
BTW the Oregon location has RV parking (30A)outside the service bays. We did similar to Jim and Gayle and pent the night before and after parked outside.
The service bays at this location didn't seem to have anything more powerful than 15A.
Lydia
I have four main windows in my 2005 27.5 MB, that started out hazy, and are now fogged. I'm trying to compile information about possible replacement. I have contacted Vince at the factory. He does not think that he can get to them until next year. I am near Phoenix and have also contacted RV Glass Solutions for info and quotes. They did not think that they could be cleaned, due to the length of time that thy have been compromised. Probable replacement. They offer an anti-reflective option, which they order from the Oregon location. Another poster on the forums mentioned that glass replacement from them would not work because of dimension differences. Does anyone have personal experience with either cleaning or replacement? Thanks so much.
Did RV Glass actually look at the windows? Ours had been fogged for a couple of years, perhaps more and they had no problem cleaning in November last year and they still look great.
Jim
RV Glass said if the windows had been hazy for 6 months or more, they would likely not be cleanable, and need to be replaced. They have not looked at them. I am contemplating a trip down to Phoenix to have them evaluated. Vince did not sound enthused about replacing them at the mothership. Plus, they we too busy to get to them until next year sometime.
RV Glass said if the windows had been hazy for 6 months or more, they would likely not be cleanable, and need to be replaced. They have not looked at them. I am contemplating a trip down to Phoenix to have them evaluated. Vince did not sound enthused about replacing them at the mothership. Plus, they we too busy to get to them until next year sometime.
Supposedly, over time the glass can get etched if fogged long enough. I don't really know what that looks like and as I said ours had fogged much longer than 6 months. Maybe there is someone different running the shop now than last year but I would have them look at it if it wasn't too inconvenient.
Plus when I asked for a quote on window replacement from Vince it was around $1,100 to $1,200 per complete window unit.
This page discusses the damage, which they refer to as riverbedding. Condensation in Double-Paned Windows - InterNACHI (https://www.nachi.org/condensation-double-paned-windows.htm)
Jim
Received a quote from RV glass yesterday. $325 for one window unit in a two window frame, or $430 if both units in a two window frame need resealing. The Phoenix location isn't busy right now.
Received a quote from RV glass yesterday. $325 for one window unit in a two window frame, or $430 if both units in a two window frame need resealing. The Phoenix location isn't busy right now.
Does that price include removing and reinstalling the repaired window?
The windows can be very hard to remove.
Larry
Does that price include removing and reinstalling the repaired window?
The windows can be very hard to remove.
Larry
This is the same company and location we used and it does include removal and reinstalling. Or did when we had it done last November.
Jim
This is the same company and location we used and it does include removal and reinstalling.
Or did when we had it done last November.
That seems to be an OK price for two windows.
Our LD has leaking glass in one of the big slider windows, maybe a winter trip Phoenix is in order,
Larry
Ours had been foggy for easily a year and a half. No issues cleaning it. Granted most of that is desert time but it didn't get sandblasted either.
Lydia
I have an appointment for Thursday with RV Glass Solutions in Phoenix. I'll report back with results. Thanks everyone for the input.
We just picked up our '06 RB from RVGlass Solutions in Phoenix. They resealed the 4 panes in the 2 driver side frames, the large rear window and the entry door window. Total cost $1510. What an unbelievable difference! We can see again!
They had completed 11 windows on an LD last Friday . When I called to nail down an exact day, was told they were out of material. I asked them to find some and Chris, the POC at the Phoenix location, called back to let me know the material was being overnighted from Oregon. LD has 1/2" windows most others are 7/16", plus the material has a shelf life so they don't keep a lot of it in stock.
We arrived 4 PM Mon, hooked up to their 50A. Chris took possession Tue AM and we went to a hotel. Could have stayed in the LD but they needed 1 1/2 days so we left. Not sure how they did it, did see the material, 2 year warranty. First class operation!
Thanks for this report! In my experience, $1500 is a very fair price for the job; replacing only the rear window in my TK at the factory was in itself a $1300 tab. I have a rear side window (slider part) that needs de-fogging; a trip to Phoenix may be in my future! ;)
FYI, JimC's review of RV Glass Solutions (http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/2017/03/fogged-windows-repair-at-rv-glass.html) was posted to The Companion this past March.
We used them at that time. Good place.
There is also a post about a place NOT to use (http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/2017/03/fogged-windows.html).
Our experience could not have been better With RV Glass Phoenix. Chris was super to work with. His crew was great. I had 5 windows done and they turned out really well. Not a mark or smudge anywhere on the rig. Would highly recommend the place.
Vince at LD replaced my large "Fogged" rear window in my '03 MB a couple of years ago. He said it was tough getting the old window out but they did a great job.